flogging it

[TCK <guitardo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

HEY everyone - I apologize in advance.  I can't read well no mo so sorry if
this is late, long and redundant - what a lot of good posting the last few
days!  I use a large font and read s-l-o-w-l-y (a word to you web designers
thx) so it took me some time to read  all those

also I hope this is not too off topic, LMK if I am violating guidelines, I'll
try to stay focused on music related stuff and of course eating at the same
time too

I totally get Kim on tools but maybe "baiting," if that was what it was, helps
to order his thought for presentation? (btw, Is Ae controversial because of
their personalities, or maybe their success? or?)  hahahaha, if this is true,
kim, clever. Well still this was a great thread.  Northrup Fry (and I.A.
Richards, Chomsky etc.) just don't stop making sense and even if this thread
could have been predicted by a program so what, it's worth it, I hope, to
some.    k  is quite right there is not a big difference between bits and
brushes or even thumbs...except the order in which they were discovered/used -
vital.

akira implies this in his thoughts regarding Bach also translation if I
understood them,  the use of foreground/ground contributes to stem research.
The past contributes to the present and future and the earlier the effect the
more pronounced in the end, unless the universe is shrinking now.....

Taxonomy, systemization and classification are amorphous to begin with, ever
changing and in a sense de/evolving from the moment of their first use but
absolutely inevitable in human perception AND political (I would agree with
Chomsky on that).  Brain mapping is different in folks with different sets of
modes of intelligences such as physical, musical, linguistic etc....  (note:
don't confuse with IQ, value, or "level").  Brain mapping (not the 18th
century concept of brain examination) here refers to the taxonomies of modern
(elite) communities.

Howard Gardner wrote on these types of intelligences in the early 80's
("Frames Of Mind" was it) and if this is i--diotic to mention let me further
spoil things with some links to links:

http://www.bvu.edu/~stensjc/jcslinks.htm
http://brainmapping.loni.ucla.edu/BMD_HTML/BrainMapSites.html

If we understand that more highly evolved people have developed specialized
types of mapping processes we can understand each other better (I don't
remember the title anymore but there is a very interesting psych book on how
this produces some odd results  - called 'brain maps of elites' or
something....).  I know metaphor is part of brain mapping to some extent.....

"Category" is related to metaphorical thought, don't  you think? You all?
(more below).

"The Best and the Brightest" syndrome, by which I mean the way the most
educated and trained individuals have often historically led into the most
evil places.....eugenics and Vietnam, for example.   Reminds us to "trust the
teller and not the tale" or consider the source, and form a relationship with
the artist if possible, an idea I will return to.  I mention this because I
think there is a tendency to look up to the real "scientists of sound" (to use
Kool and the Gang's phrase) and it really is unnecessary today.  We are moving
however slowly to a form of global democracy......despite efforts to the
contrary that use the tag.

> will only play on the mini-disc format...the decision to
> release something on that format (it could have easily been 8 track) is
> also part of the contextual reading of the work...digital media has to be
> read as such or you have been living in a cave for the past 20 years and
> have missed out on the development of digital culture...

oh oh alley oop here!!
isn't music fungible?  my kids (students) are going to copy everything to CD
now so they can play it in their cars, or mp3 for use at home....
minidisc not too big in usa for consumers though.

On the other hand, by releasing something in a format few can afford, when it
is non fungible (like perhaps a "patch" CD made for only an expensive unit) I
would say the message is not intentional but clearly denotes class....but I am
not on a political rant here.  I just question what other message(s) there
might be in examples other than this one.  When McLuhan probed the differences
between film, book and TV (for example) his mediums were vastly
different.....is CD vs minidisc really different? hasn't the rate of
technological change become a blur and so has culture become a blur as well??
To cope, do we want to "speed think,' and ignore deeper needs? Speaking of
kids, let's not forget how differently we all perceived music when we were
young compared to now.....that......we.....are......oh.  Well, some of you,
talk among yourselves.

I thought "I liked the 60's posters more..."  just because there seemed to be
a thinner quality to the paper and the colors of the newer flyers......but
looking at posters from Degas, it is even more the case boo hoo.  This
mechanical quality fascinates some folks and alienates others, but they are
both valid.  I think this is what David was getting at in his posting with the
Frye quote?  However, by thinking this,  perhaps I was thinking "photoshop,"
though I didn't know the product, I could somehow smell digital
"assistance"....maybe this is what annoys some of you, "art by committee"  -
a committee of presets as it were - I know this is why I dislike large
movies.  It is hard to find the mind of the artist/author.

I really don't understand why people mistrust/dislike the trend of thought Kim
was advancing, regarding a deeper listening to digital, and the need to learn
more for "fuller" appreciation.  Is it because they feel it's not "fun," or
they feel unable to grasp certain elements or concepts? This can change.  I
knew a poet once who told me that unless I had begun reading Heidegger in my
early 20's (or was it Kant?) I would never EVER catch up to modern
culture......well, it was probably true in a sense, certainly I have never
caught up to him, but not a reason to stop learning!!!!!

> hip-hop is a good example of "tool-music"...

or, as pointed out, class spawned music....(turntable tools being
affordable).  I was much more impressed with hip hop when I saw a turntablist
work and could understand how the sounds of scratch were made, naturally.
Someone made a similar point to explain Sinatra - he made his croon by using
the new microphone technology and studio tools, which permitted him to sing as
if right into your ear.

> .when you hear an Oval piece part of the cultural
> signifigence is the fact that we are hearing a systemic failure (failure to
> recover lost or missing bits by the CD player) used as an artistic
> device...we are let in on the joke (the abstraction) because we own a CD
> player and it has most likely skipped when trying to play a CD...the CD
> player becomes the tool...another case in point: "e - a novel" by Matt
> Beaumont...it was written in the format of intra-office emails and takes
> "place" in an ad agency office...

These are sort of examples of "found" art, aren't they? and the fun is, you
DON'T have to "get the joke," to enjoy them, and in fact, knowing their
derivation can actually change the enjoyment to analysis or at least diffuse
the sheer fun......or shock.  Ready mades and found art are (to me) man's
sarcastic, ironic, or critical look at his own surroundings and/or culture.
This is why DuChamp chose a toilette if you ask me....and Kafka chose a
roach.   Enjoying systematic failure is so modern.  The term "glitch," itself
(doesn't it mean mistake?) is so modern. I still think this gets back to
irony, humor and coping mechanisms.

Back to brain mapping.  Metaphor, you can argue, is a part of brain mapping,
and it's hard to escape.  Symbol, a kind of metaphor, is not the same as
substance and are we to think "tools" are not substance either? or the other
way 'round?  Maybe that is a non sequiter or not that important of a
distinction.

> and hence acts as a
> political force which categorizes/separates people into "those who are
> computer literate" vs those who aren't computer literate")

Again, class related in some or many cases  -  so is health and vision and
"hearing,"  even language itself:  Chomsky's work on linguistics is about this
(in part). A good secondary source is:  James Mcgilvray: Chomsky Language,
Mind and Politics.  Or the great Orwell essay on "Politics and the English
Language."

> glitch is a genre that
> cannnot separate the signifier from the signified (tool from content) no
> matter how you approach it...every review and article written calls up some
> reference to technology even in passing...

ditto cubism (oil paint), delta blues (guitar) etc. etc., does this ever
change with new art?  the only time tools are not mentioned is when there is a
common understanding and the tools are taken for granted.  Didn't Eno have a
card game for generating form and music by chance?

> a recent study at Universtiy of Tuebingen shows that fast brains
> have a greater capacity for multitasking and a display a higher tolerance
> for dissonance and contradiction...sounds like most the people I know...

not to be a cassandra, but there are also way more people on Prosac today.....

but getting back to music!!!

I saw an exhibit of ancient Chinese instruments at the Sackler in DC last year
(GREAT) which contained among other things the world's oldest preserved wooden
flute and the largest set of orchestral bells ever found. Just awesome.   The
taped narrative to the exhibit (spoken by yo yo ma) pointed out that the
antecedent period's musical philosophy (approx. bronze age) held that music
was the only force that could make people act in accord without being forced.

It was used in home, village, and group settings to promote discipline,
harmony, community and other things (my memory is really failing me).  But
this historical perspective is a pointer for today and here is my thought:  if
there is a "problem with" Ae or electronic music today (I wish I could say it
in a different way - how about "task for") it is to explain itself and its
processes in a way that the average person without a computer or synth or a
set of "tools," can begin to understand. This is why I am disappointed in
artist's interviews or web pages that tell much of who they like and dislike,
where they sit or on who they stand, but don't discuss their technique and I
mean in detail.  A video of a WIP is great - it doesn't have to be dull,
pedantic or academic!! Or exhaustive or complete!  But I also think it should
be more than "masonic" code images and references.

This dodge is a bit coy, and makes me think, "they're afraid someone will
steal their techniques and do it better" and how can that be valid?  First,
it's not about money, is it???  What other artists do this?  We want all that
can to participate in its construction and certainly to understand its
construction and use.  btw, this thread is doing me, at least, a favor by
getting deeper into meaning and context, and though the subjects I've brought
forth might be better on other lists or might be predictable, I appreciate the
fact that fora such as these have their waters roiled every so often with
threads like this one. I really would like to hear some more from all of you
on your own (artful) teach-niques though.  Soon, with archived web video this
will be easily achieved.    Also I would tend to associate myself with scott's
remarks on humanity. and I really like the music at many sites found here on
ms- coming across with the goods!!! damn you people!!!  WOW
Tim
ps i promise no more long posts for many moons