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Re: [microsound] pop vs art music

On 7/17/02 at 10:15 PM, the.kurtz.quartet <kurtz@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> either you are full of it or there is some really weird 19th century 
> shit happening in the US.

Castells' book was based on an extensive review of economic studies of
industry change in the mid-late 80's.

Bourdieu based his findings on research he did in France in the
early-mid 70's, so I'm not sure where you get the 19th time skew...

> here in (northern) europe most research points to the same big change 
> going on: (young) people do not define themselves (or others) based 
> on what they do for a living.  this sort of invalidates your 
> reasoning seen from this continent.

My guess is these studies focus on a fairly educated sector of the
population. I can't believe this includes the beliefs of the Turkish and
Algerian temporary workers in France and Germany, the apartment block
dwellers North of Dublin, or the harrassed supermarket checkout girl in
Bucurest who told me that all the educated Romanian youth had flown to
New York City for jobs.

Your comment does point up something interesting however, which is the
perceived fluidity between what I termed the "major" and "minor"
groupings of the middle class.

Life under Capitalism isn't punishment for all. Perceived opportunity
for betterment is critical to it's working, so of course we feel we can
climb the ladder to success. Or in the specifics of your commment, which
to me implies a "no growth" economic outlook, people aren't defined by
their place on the ladder.

A lofty thought, unless you're at the bottom of the ladder and can't get
into or afford Harvard...

> books and think about it - the old stereotypes are still there even 
> if maybe folks dont like to be called "union worker" anymore.  it's 
> the same system as always.

Not sure what you're trying to say here...

> also the industries that can be virtualized are only the
> service industries (like IT consultants, ad-agencies,
> web-design companies and stuff such as this - writing to
> mailing lists).

What about sneakers? leather coats? computer chips? cell phones? Ford
Tauruses?  All of these manfacturing industries have been virtualized by
moving the low class jobs off shore, leaving just the folks that call
the shots in one big happy family.

Except for the people who, for lack of the ability to get an education,
will never be able to do anything more than serve me my coffee at

> and i happen to think that music by xenakis and others have other 
> more interesting uses besides being "status symbols". like triggering 
> musical experiences ...

If I left you with that impression, my apologies. Xenakis makes great
art. I was only trying to lay bare some of the societal forces that
promote intellectualism in the reception of great art...