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Re: [microsound] mp3 redux



good point. but do you mean don't decay in the sense that a product made by
man doesn't decay within his lifetime? Just because something will not decay
in our lifetime doesn't mean it will not be overtaken by nature. Nature will
likely not be defeated by all of this man made pollution. It could even
survive a major worldwide global thermo nuke war(think the movie wargames
http://www.movieprop.com/tvandmovie/reviews/wargames.htm ). We might be gone
but the bees and insects and oceans would likely overflow with lifeforms, in
fact there's quite a large amount evidence to support this with the
dinosaurs having come and gone and now man rising up from the shadows of the
genetic stew brought from the ocean.
no flame intended on my part either

maybe another book for microsounders to read is "The Lucifer Principle" by
Howard Bloom http://howardbloom.net/lucifer/about.html
being how it's likely to be found in a library or ordinary bookstore and it
relates to microsound on a variety of levels. who knows?
----- Original Message -----
From: "dbuchwald" <dagmar.buchwald@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "microsound" <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] mp3 redux

> Hm, I am not sure whether you can really compare nature's reproductive
abundance
> with the large-scale output of products by humans -- products which don't
decay
> and do not dissolve back into the natural flow of (re-)production but
which use
> a large amount of natural 'ressources' (don't like the word; it already
reflects
> a certain view of nature, that is: a large storehouse from which to take
> whatever we want).
>
> Just a remark in passing.  I don't intend to open up a flame about
ecology.
>
> Dagmar
>
>
> walrus and the carpenter wrote:
>
> > Cool off. It's all going to your head and coming out wrong. Your
arguments
> > deny biology and nature...something you nor I can stop. Nature is a
massive
> > copying mutating machine that blows your rationizations to fragments.
What
> > about evil? Get used to it because it's in everyone's genes. Do you
think
> > that every executive and artist out there in the world is god's little
> > angel? Of course not, neither are they all devils. But the most
proactive
> > and reproducing groups are the most successful. Redundencies are
completely
> > necessary in humans and most definitely in nature. To deny this is like
> > fighting a war on some drugs. If you really want to fight piracy close
down
> > every reproducing plant in the world...call back every cd-recorder, make
the
> > rain go away and make the sun shine for all of us. But i'll be the first
to
> > go on record and say that your ideas about nature are a moral blasphemy
> > towards god's creation just as the illegalization of plants/nature is a
> > paradox of capitalism and freedom's natural biological functions.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jan.l" <jl@xxxxxxx>
> > To: "microsound" <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 4:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: [microsound] mp3 redux
> >
> > Why should anyone need to report their income or lifestyle to you? Why
do
> > you need this information? Do you see yourself as material for at strong
> > leader (maybe in uniform?) that knows everyone elses best and you will
then
> > decide who gets what and which lifestyle you think they should adher to?
> >
> > Personally I dislike shorts. Lets join forces. I can shoot anyone
wearing
> > shorts and you can beat artists until you get all their income
statements
> > and decide what they can have for dinner tonight and which one are
allowed
> > to have a car or wife & children.
> >
> > All these rationalisations for stealing IP are becoming more & more
> > ridiculous. Why not just relax, look at yourself in the mirror every
morning
> > and say "I am a greedy little thief" and then to hell with it and
continue
> > saving your money by copying all the stuff you want. Heck, even the RIAA
> > might go for that deal ;=)
> >
> > You are trying wildly to separate out certain people/activities in
society
> > as some kind of paria - free for everyone to hunt down and capitalize
from.
> > In this case composers/musicians. Next week? Taxi drivers? Homosexuals?
> > Muslims?
> >
> > Is it o.k. to do just anything because technology makes it possible? Is
it
> > o.k. to shoot liberals just because we have the technolgy (guns)? Is it
o.k.
> > for every pervert to listen and watch their neighbors make love just
because
> > the technology to secretly spy on them is available? Is it o.k. for Dow
to
> > ignore Bhopal just because they can get away with it?
> >
> > Still you *can* have your file-sharing within todays system without
making
> > everyone using it a greedy little person. Simply make your case to the
> > artists/composers/musicians and if it is as good as you say it is ..
they
> > will come in droves and happily surrender their IP to anyone who needs
free
> > content to improve their site-profits (morpheus, kazaa and whatever
sites
> > there are). Some may not give up their IP rights and work for nothing  -
> > but why not just ignore those few and let them have their way - just let
> > them grumpily sit in their corner guarding their stuff.
> >
> > >There's a moral point that continually comes up regarding downloading -
> > support
> > >the indie labels if you download. This indie boosterism doesn't do it
for
> > me.
> > >As much as I'd like to lend a hand to other artists, this capitalist
world
> > >forces me to be more practical. There is an idea that artists should be
> > able to
> > >earn enough money from their creative endeavors to support themselves
and
> > their
> > >families. I would love to be a part of that (sometimes questionably)
> > enviable
> > >group; however, I doubt many people aside from the superstars and other
> > >major-label-supported performers are doing so. To those list members
with
> > CDs
> > >out, remind us if the income from sales of your CDs is your only or
major
> > >source of income. If it is, would you be kind enough to tell us not
your
> > >income, but a self-assessment of your standard of living (lower-class
by
> > >American standards and proud of it, comfortably middle-class,
rich-as-hell
> > and
> > >not done yet)?
> > >
> > >The continuing death of labels (such as Strictly Rhythm
> > >http://www.discjockey101.com/oct2002.html) means that labels aren't
keeping
> > up
> > >with the times. They are offering an obsolete product. Some people
continue
> > to
> > >promote packaging (case, liner notes, hand-drawn/printed art) as a
> > >justification for the production of CDs. However, it's arguable that
these
> > are
> > >contributors to environmental problems. The mining of the aluminum at
the
> > core
> > >of the CD destroys wildlife habitats, the solvents used in sputtering
the
> > >aluminum disc with plastic are toxic, the use of the plastic in the
cases
> > >supports Bush's oil empire, the cardboard in the sleeves brings down
more
> > >trees, the manufacturing process uses too much electricity which wastes
> > >resources, the selling of the CD in stores through distributors
promotes an
> > >inefficient delivery system, and so on. Why buy such a product when it
is
> > >available, minus all drawbacks, for free on the web? There is the moral
> > >argument that I should buy it because not to is stealing. However, if
> > buying it
> > >means supporting and affirming all of the aforementioned ills, wouldn't
> > >downloading be at least in morally neutral territory?
> > >
> > >The only arguments I hear on various lists are moral ones. Why do all
> > writers
> > >ignore the economic side of this, imho, primarily economic issue? What
is
> > the
> > >product that an artist can provide that is compelling enough to buy? I
have
> > a
> > >well for my water; why would I pay the city for their water system?
Live
> > >performing is one aspect. Jello Biafra moans about the
> > >artists-as-traveling-minstrel, and given the poor environmental
conditions
> > of
> > >most venues (cigarette smoke, drunken spectators, competition with the
> > >meat-market background), I can see his point. Those of you who are
selling
> > CDs
> > >and performing live, what is the breakdown, percentage-wise, in the
income?
> > >Steve Albini writes (http://www.negativland.com/albini.html) that for
most
> > >major label bands, the CD is already a vehicle for promoting a tour
(the
> > only
> > >real source of income).  Interestingly, farmers have been facing a
severe
> > >downturn in the price of their commodity. Without subsidies, farming in
> > America
> > >isn't profitable. The same goes for American manufacturing. In our
world,
> > >everything has become too easy to make and so there is too much of it.
Core
> > >economic issues are being challenged in ways that haven't been before.
> > >Capitalism relies on scarcity and unlimited resources (sounds absurd
from
> > the
> > >start, doesn't it?). We are rapidly facing the end of scarcity (at
least
> > for
> > >many information-based products) and the end of unlimited resources
(oil,
> > land,
> > >wood, others).
> > >
> > >So the real question is: how can artists make a living at art in this
> > economic
> > >situation? For me, donations aren't a viable answer; I already find the
> > >Salvation Army guy at Christmas to be a nuisance. What is a compelling
and
> > >morally-superior product that an artist can produce to make a
reasonable
> > >income? While it's clear that the problems with capitalism are
> > long-standing,
> > >it doesn't appear that other viable systems are forthcoming. I realize
it's
> > a
> > >little OT, but can anyone recommend recent writing (preferably
web-based)
> > >discussing these problems? Anyone know any outstanding articles on gift
> > >economics?
> > >
> > >Renick
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > >http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> > >
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