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Re: [microsound] TATE dicussion cont.



A lot of good questions in derek's post. Nice too how it cuts through some
of the 
resistence to a deeper rather than broader discussion.

I'd like to center on one of the questions that might 'resonate' the most
with folks on 
this list - that is this one:

> -If artifacts are always in flux, when is an historical work determined
to be 
"finished"?

I find that Lev Manovich's writings on digital media are sometimes a bit
too polemical 
but I think there is great value in how he writes about this subject.  The
nature of 
digital media is that it is never fixed and thus never finished. We have
all likely named 
files or projects and then appended new dates to the file names to indicate
that they 
has been revisited or "improved" upon. Or we have swapped files with one
another 
and then, at some point, lost the impressions of the original strands and
cannot 
determine where each artist's imprints really are. 

It is sometimes exciting to be able to rework an object over a long period
of time - but 
with that constant state of flux we sometimes lose what, in the times of
high 
modernism, must have been, on occasion, the nice sense of satisfaction over 
"finishing something" - to be able to say "voila" it is done.  I would
argue that these 
new works of "digital art" are rarely, if ever, finished.  


Chris McNamara
thinkbox


Original Message:
-----------------
From: derek holzer derek@xxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:11:56 +0100
To: microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [microsound] TATE dicussion cont.


Dear microsounders,

in the hopes we can "elevate" the banter around here beyond one-liners 
and such:

Arie van Schutterhoef wrote:
>>it's all high-concept gobledegook speak...
> 
> -But does it matter?

I'd like to post the point that the Tate discussion leaves off [right 
now anyway], as I think that Lina Dzuverovic and Kenneth Goldsmith pose 
some interesting questions about different models of online 
collaboration, participation and distribution. Some of this dovetails 
quite nicely into previous threads here concerning CD vs CDR vs MP3 at 
the very least....

at http://tinyurl.com/6ub6e, Lina Dzuverovic wrote:

> nude media   	  
> 
> It is interesting how the collaboration/participation discussion
initially shot off into 
two different directions (online vs offline collaborative models) only to
come back to 
what are essentially different appropriation methods and individual choices
of 
crediting/presentation.
 >
> Going back to Doug and John's posts, to me 'nude media' (a great term,
Kenneth, 
btw) is one way of talking about a history of appropriation whether it is
offline or 
online. As John just illustrated - it is a question of choice, not medium.
> 
> That MP3 file 'stripped of its external signifiers' is essentially no
different then a 
photocopied page separated from the author/title info. Are we not just
replacing a pair 
of scissors (Gysin) with sound processing software? Perhaps the the main
difference 
is in the speed with which the 'nude media' file makes it's way back into
the remixing 
and sampling pool and how long it stays there for (and if it ever becomes
used up/
finished)?
> 
> And on that note, I thought Kenneth's asked some really interesting
questions a few 
posts back, which we all seem to have skipped and I'd like to return to
those:
> 
> 
> -How does having a variety of contexts influence the cultural reception
of such 
objects?
> 
> -Who or what determines an avant-garde artifact's value, both
commercially and 
intellectually?
> 
> -How does this in turn impact the artist's reputation, both commercially
and 
intellectually?
> 
> -If artifacts are always in flux, when is an historical work determined
to be 
"finished"?


happy discourse,
d.

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl
---Oblique Strategy # 36:
"Consult other sources
-promising
-unpromising"

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