Re: [microsound] maths science and electronic music

[Thanos Chrysakis <azimuths@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

on 4/13/05 12:02 AM, ian stewart at artsonics@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> In the discussion of math/music, the esthesic/poietic division seems
> crucial- after all, where is the math? The math may be important to the
> composer or producer, but does it matter to the listener? That is, do we
> hear math? I remember reading, ages ago and I have no idea where, a critique
> of serialism based on studies of aural perception. The point was that we
> don't hear by counting. And if you make a piece with Galois cohomology or
> pseudo-Riemannian manifolds, what of this will come across in the sound? Do
> people think that this will encode some deep structure in the music that
> will be communicated as musical structure in the listening experience?
> That's certainly not self-evident- I think the case that needs to be proved
> is that mathematics is somehow relevant to the aural experience and the
> perception of music, form, structure, etc. Obviously there's math floating
> around, because sound obeys physical laws, but that doesn't mean that math
> can tell us anything deep or profound about music and why we find it
> interesting enough to spend half our lives doing it and talking about it.

Actually, this problematic goes back to Plato, Pythagoras and
Aristoxenos .
Aristoxenos was saying that the notes of a scale should be judged not as
Pythagoreans held my mathematical ratio (and Plato was influenced
by Pythagoras's views on Music) but by the ear.

There is actually an experiential- phenomenological perspective and a
mathematico-logical one and these do not have to be opposed.
Actually, they complement each other. In other words... there is the
world of physical phenomena eg: sounds, colours, weather, etc
and the noumenal world of numbers, symbols, imagination, ideas.

If we talk in terms of sound as an acoustical phenomenon
then the relation to maths and science is evident. That means
that if you want to come in terms, to understand  a physical
phenomenon e.g sound, light,... whatever... maths-physics-science are the
fields that create the appropriate functions and ideas on such
phenomena. 

Now, creating music we deal with the
physical properties of sounds but of course we don't stay there.
That's why ex-pression (please take it in a broad sense) is not
only physical.
Maths and science are related with the Arts through the prism that
they give us insights on physical phenomena that means the material
that we use to make Music&Art.
Every physical phenomenon when it is perceived (even in a subliminal way) by
a person is not only physical anymore it takes a qualitative turn. We do not
perceive+sense (see aesthetics::aestheseis)
through maths. 
But maths give us a deeper understanding and
an insight on physical phenomena on our material.
(But who was said actually, that
the deeper part of our body is our skin?)

It is  our responsibility as musicians if we can bring forth
the immaterial aspects of our materials - sounds
with maths or not.


Best,
Thanos












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