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Re: [microsound] beware the decibel...
Its very difficult to control the amount of loud speaker-produced sound
you listen per day, if you work in sound related areas.
I for example work in advertising audio post production, and I spend
almost 9 hours a day between 2 yamaha ns10. The thing is that I work with
many different producers each day and everyone wants to listen loud to
their production. I cant say no. Add to this my minimum need of some music
per day. I cant use earplugs because I need to be aware of the subtleties
of sound when Im editing, and it would look rude to my clients.
Its not easy to keep your ears safe from exposure.
Well, it was worse when I used to play acoustic drums. Those are REALLY
harmful. Now I play e-drums.
Hernan
www.cooptrol.com
> Hi
> Great post Ive been loving to read it and decided to leave some of my
> ideas.
>
> This hearing and listening thing is essencial, in the end if all become
> deaf
> what is the point in music?
>
> One big issue in my point of view is related not only to the volume in
> decibel terms but in fact to the actual quality of the sound system. In
> fact, specially when it comes to techno, it makes no sense listening on
> low
> volumes, one of the key things of the relationship between the body and
> its
> embodiement | dissembodiement with the techno music is the capability the
> music has to stimulate the actual body, as oposed to a pure hearing with
> the
> hears relationship. In techno and most dance music, louder is better just
> see the overcompression fashion!!!
>
> The basses and sub basses are indeed most of them felt by the body and not
> heard by the hears. This brings me to the bad quality sound systems. In my
> many nights out, Ive come to realise there are places that although have a
> lower decibel level than others actually damage more the hears (I heard
> much
> more ringing the next day). this happens in one way because of some
> unprofessional djs who just push the highs so it seems louder and due to
> lousy venues who preffer to spare some money on sound and have a better
> looking place.
>
> When I create music I tend to like to hear it loud but Ive forced myself
> to
> just use some studio monitors now, and then test the track on bigger
> speakers.
>
> In terms of experimental music many of the venues use extremelly loud spl
> levels, which is some cases may be justified but from my experience in
> most
> cases it isnt, as a performer you are not exposed to the same spl levels
> than the audience, so in one way you may not realise the extreme volume
> and
> on the other I believe its indeed an issue of power over the audience,
> sometimes I believe it is indeed and issue of power over the audience,
> lets
> not forget sonic weapons. Sound is indeed very connected to this idea of
> brutal warfare male power, and the one that plays louder is the one who
> wins.
> In the end although probably this is not a thought attitude most of the
> times, itºs still kind of a childish one.
>
> On the other hand youºve got noise artists whose intent is to disorientate
> you, to hurt the hears, to bring new experiences with loud spl, so in the
> end its up to you what you get to hear, but definatly at lease allways
> bring
> some tampons - you never know when youll need them.
>
> Oh and by the way a curious information. Avoid flying with a heavy cold or
> after excecive spl, a friend of mine lost 40 per cent of her hearing due
> to
> that and she will never get them back - I have travelled with a cold, but
> now Im more carefull.
>
> well thats it for now
> Back to my 80 db studio
>
>
>
> Filipe Galante
>
>
>
>
>>From: Graham Miller <grahammiller@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Reply-To: microsound <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: microsound <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: Re: [microsound] beware the decibel...
>>Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:51:55 -0400
>>
>>wow.
>>
>>thank you for sharing this with us (and me).
>>
>>no one wants to lose their hearing.
>>
>>i'm not sure i can write anything that can do justice to what you're
>>trying to say. i really enjoy good loud music and i am aware of the
>>double edged sword.
>>
>>on a visit to rotterdam i went to a techno concert headlined by richie
>>hawtin and chris liebing. in retrospect i consumed too many vodkas and
>>tonic and decided it would a good idea to position myself as close as
>>humanly possible to the wall of speakers. when we got back to amsterdam
>>the next day, i couldn't hear anything. it was as if i had my hands
>>clasped over my ears. it was disorientating, as we discern so much of
>> our
>>three dimensional surroundings, particularly what we can't see, through
>>hearing (it's an obvious reference, but the film 'it's all gone, pete
>>tong' articulates this horror a little too well). this, combined with
>> the
>>fact that i exhibit hypochondriac tendencies in the best of situations,
>>led to one of the most frightful and unpleasant experiences in my life.
>>within 24 hours or so, my hearing gradually returned to a point in which
>> i
>>felt comfortable again. i was lucky. but it left a lasting impression in
>>more ways than one.
>>
>>prior to this, in my first forays into techno music making, i had the
>>fortune of being able to use a full club sound system as my monitors. i
>>spent every night for about a year in front of a 4000 watt (2000 mono
>>watts going to the subwoofer and 1000 each to the two full range tops
>>speakers) sound system, which taught me a lot about the aesthetics of
>>techno music, but not without its toll on my hearing.
>>
>>i know i listen to music too loud. but like a drug addict, i'm
>> addicted.
>>i've read all the literature about listening levels and proper mixing,
>> and
>>still i have difficulties resisting the temptation to crank the volume.
>> i
>>love it too much. i bought the expensive custom moulded ear plugs. but,
>>admittedly, i rarely use them.
>>
>>the only thing i can offer here is pure speculation. one day we will be
>>able to bypass our ears and pipe sounds directly into our brains. only
>> at
>>this point, will we be able to indulge in the sonic possibilities
>> offered
>>by technology without damaging what is essentially a fairly fragile
>>membrane, unsuited to the demands of our modern soundscape.
>>
>>the other point, i want to raise here is physical hearing versus, what i
>>might call, 'intellectual hearing.' maybe a better way to put it is
>>'hearing' versus 'listening.' i know people with great hearing, because
>>they are not music lovers or musicians, whose frequency response is
>>perfect, yet they couldn't tell you the difference between a bass guitar
>>and an electric guitar. at the other end of the spectrum are people who
>>can't hear anything, but are able to improvise and cope, and create the
>>illusion they hear everything, based on years of practice.
>>
>>i think one of the real dangers of prolonged loud music exposure, as
>>skilled musicians, is that our brains overcompensate for our
>> deteriorating
>>hearing to such an extent that we can still hear detail in music
>>regardless of our objective hearing ability. we become better at
>>listening, while we become worse at hearing.
>>
>>i'm sorry if my previous post seemed a tad trite, but it was purely
>>reactionary. in no means do i mean disrespect to those who have incurred
>>hearing damage as a result of loud music.
>>
>>still, there's a part of me, perhaps informed my the happenstance and
>>privilege of my relatively okay hearing, that thinks of extreme musics
>> in
>>terms of a marie currie analogy, of radium and cancer, and the
>> importance
>>of pushing forward despite the casualties incurred.
>>
>>i'm still not sure i've actually said anything here (as always) but
>>regardless, i want to thank you for sharing with us.
>>
>>all the best,
>>
>>graham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 12-Jul-06, at 7:06 PM, Randal Davis wrote:
>>
>>>Before this goes on any longer, I feel a very serious need to inject
>>> some
>>>realism, or at least a very personal experience.
>>>
>>>I am a 51 year-old intermittent composer and most definitely former
>>>performer, who has lost approximately 80% of my once very, very good
>>>hearing. I have lived with this now for more than ten years, and will
>>>live
>>>with it the rest of my life.
>>>
>>>I say "intermittent" because the frustration of trying to work within
>>> the
>>>constraints of this disability is, well, let's just call it
>>> frustrating.
>>>And I say "former" because direct exposure to even the sound levels of
>>> an
>>>acoustic chamber ensemble on stage could cause still further damage.
>>>
>>>The aesthetic points in this thread are all well-taken - Graham Miller,
>>>and
>>>others, are doubtless correct that sheer amplitude may be a vital
>>>component
>>>of an aesthetic position. It is, after all, as foolish to imagine a
>>>Glenn
>>>Branca symphony at polite levels as a Morton Feldman composition at
>>> other
>>>than approaching the threshold of audibility.
>>>
>>>So far, so good - this is, truly, the prerogative of the artist. But
>>> let
>>>us
>>>not lose the deep thread here. An artist may change their intention at
>>>any
>>>time. Hearing loss, on the other hand, is irrevocable.
>>>
>>>The result, for me, is that now, with some $5K worth of hearing aids
>>> (US
>>>readers take note - they are not covered by health insurance), I can
>>>function more or less normally, at least socially. But this thing,
>>> music,
>>>that I loved more than life itself, whether it was Satie, Stockhausen,
>>>Miles
>>>Davis, or Autechre, is now hardly more than a memory.
>>>
>>>The damage caused by exposure to loud sounds is cumulative - in other
>>>words,
>>>the problem is not just that one, really, really loud performance, but
>>>the
>>>many (only just) loud gigs.
>>>
>>>Please, my friends, if you are reading this, take care. There have
>>> been
>>>a
>>>number of interesting threads on the aesthetics of laptop performance -
>>>does
>>>it really work, as performance, to watch someone poring over a
>>> keyboard?
>>>Good question - but imagine what it would be like if that was all you
>>>had,
>>>and there was no sound.
>>>
>>>My point here is, finally, fairly simple. We don't need debate, though
>>>it
>>>is an important question, the aesthetics of amplitude, or its socio-
>>>cultural
>>>matrix in modernity and postmodernity. Take whatever position you like
>>>on
>>>the aesthetic debate - but I suspect you would still like your voice,
>>> so
>>>to
>>>speak, to be heard.
>>>
>>>Thought experiment: take an ice pick to your eyes, then decide to be a
>>>painter, and let me know how it works out.
>>>
>>>RD
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Andras Hargitai" <andras.hargitai@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: "microsound" <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <info@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:21 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [microsound] beware the decibel...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't agree. Feeling the sound doesn't necessarily come with volume.
>>>>Of course to a certain extent yes, e.g. in the case of bad speakers
>>>>when you can hardly hear anything or situations like that.
>>>>
>>>>2006/7/12, Xdugef <info@xxxxxxxxxx>:
>>>>>Yea earplugs are a must because if you want to feel the sound you
>>>>> need
>>>>>volume.
>>>>>
>>>>>>So again: I ask why? If you play your music at physically damaging
>>>>>>volumes, why? What do you hope to get out of it? And what are you
>>>>>>expecting of your audience?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll also say that I'm 26, I hate being this curmudgeonly, but I
>>>>>> want
>>>>>>
>>>>>>to be able to hear in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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