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Re: [microsound] an interesting monolake answer

in this area i still think of that autechre video for gantz graf is a stunning hybrid of sound meets visuals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMRjmtSx24A

but i think we're getting away from the original quote which wasn't so much about visuals and music in performance, but rather how GUI and the visual representation of music affects the music making process itself, positively or negatively.

in my imagination, i have always thought that best kind of computer instrument would be closer to a military flight simulator. some kind immersive virtual 3D environment to navigate through, controlled either physically, or mentally. it would a sound space. this is, after all, what music is, in aural form: a sound space.

or reverse engineer the gantz graf video, for instance. imagine that the video itself was a live interface for producing sound, and that the piece of music, was created by that interface, not the other way around, as it actually is. that gantz graf 'world' could be accessed through virtual reality technology and that geometry of the VR world could be manipulated, like an instrument, to produce sound.

the reality of it is: there will be different interfaces for every person. the ultimate trend is total customization and individuality. just look at already how many different ways there are to use live. no two people i know use it exactly the same way, and its hardly at the level of customization of, say, MAX or reaktor. can the same be said for pro tools?

g.


On 19-Dec-06, at 8:03 AM, Cooptrol wrote:

I've been discussing this music-video dilemma for some time now, even with
Rob Henke, or Thomas Koner for example.

I've been trying to enter the video world by learning jitter, using
traditional software like premier or after effects. My conclusion is that
no technical expertise can match the years in visual formation that people
who make videos and movies have. I simply can't figure out how to manage
the material, and how to develop a powerful audio-visual piece without
collapsing into the lame-visuals-good-music-or-viceversa problem.

The other issue is the visual representation of sound. All musicians will
agree that sound is powerful enough to need some visual representation.
IMHO I have no doubts about that. What is tested here is our capacity to
resist the pressure that the audio-visual mass culture is making on us.
Should we add visuals to our music? (done by ourselves or with the aid of
a filmmaker). Could it be that we are lacking performance skills? Or even
musical skills to generate a really overwhelming musical or sound
enviroment for an audience? Should a musician perform? Is it mandatory?
The problem is deeper than it seems.

Some people has been successful in this quest and others haven't. Check
out this example, the Incite duo from Hamburg. Excellent music with
excellent visuals, all homogenuous. And they told me they both do visuals
and music (not the typical laptop musician/VJ line-up). And what's more
outstanding is that they pre-edit everything and then reproduce audio and
video clips in order following a written (!) score.

http://www.incite.fragmentedmedia.org/video_incite.html

Hernan

www.cooptrol.com


I didn't think Ableton was created for djing. I always understood that
Robert & co drafted it as a live performance tool in MAX/MSP and then
ported
it to C++ for a commercial release.

The Djing thing was accidental..

Simon.


On 19/12/06 6:20 PM, "David Powers" <cyborgk@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Interesting ... for me, I couldn't really draw a line between editing
and generating. It's part of the same process...

But I LOATHE the piano roll, and I've also had problems just trying to
plug in a keyboard and play a simple live keyboard part. It's more
about assumptions Ableton makes about what I want to create, ie, that
it's a loop, that it should be quantitized. Every time I DON'T want to
make a loop, it turns out to be a real pain. I know there's
workarounds, but this is almost the only software in my life where I
had to read the manual!

~D

On 12/19/06, Kyle Klipowicz <kyleklip@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
On 12/18/06, David Powers <cyborgk@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Maybe this explains why Ableton's interface seems visually so lacking
to me. Okay, it's great for doing live DJing as it was originally
intended, but every time I go to write some kind of piece with it and
use it more like a traditional sequencer, the interface drives me
absolutely insane. I just can't get a good workflow going in it...


That's funny, because I find that I am so addicted to Ableton Live
because
it has the most elegant interface that I've ever used. I feel like I'm
on
Star Trek: The Next Generation when I use it. All that's lacking is a
multi-touch screen (pleeeease Apple!)

But I do agree that it's nice to listen to music w/out visual aid. I
read
an Autechre interview where they discuss similar things as well. I
think
that the visual aspect is great for editing, but not producing. I
hardly
even look at the screen when I'm generating content, rather when I'm
editing
it.

~Kyle

--

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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