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Re: [microsound] Getting started-commode fetish



Well yah especially when you are comparing one nla to another that has
a grandiose storage volume of 50 megabytes or whatever.

Actually if I could get my hands on a working video fairlight for cheap
I would.

I had this neighbor who was collecting SGI boxes because they were
capable of realtime video effects and I was like for anything you save
by not buying the modern equivalent you'l make on your powerbill. those
things were the biggest power hogs.

But on the note of commodity fetish.. what are the pros and cons of
that versus planned obsolecence and recycling? I don't think glorifying
older hardware is as bad as throwing away a computer very couple of
years times a billion people or whatever.

AD

--- Graham Miller <grahammiller@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> yeah! that stuff kills me. i have a hardware junkie friend who goes  
> on and on about old samplers... 12bit this, 10bit that... please...  
> 
> this is the 21st century. our musical tools should reflect the state 
> 
> of the art. there is nothing wrong with being familiar with the  
> history of instruments (organology they call it...). i too have gone 
> 
> through my analogue fetish, 808s, 909s, 303s, a super jupiter etc.  
> but glorifying these instruments   smells a little too commodity  
> fetishistic for even my free marketplace ideals:)
> 
> g.
> 
> 
> 
> On 14-May-07, at 9:09 PM, Xdugef wrote:
> 
> > Well too bad you can't run software without hardware.. anybody
> wanna
> > buy a vintage fairlight for $10-20k?? it's a bargain!
> >
> > --- craque <craque@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Oh YES he did.
> >>
> >> ;)
> >>
> >> Graham I have many thoughts to your longer reply, coming soon.
> >>
> >> On May 14, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Xdugef wrote:
> >>
> >>> oh no you didn't!
> >>>
> >>> --- Graham Miller <grahammiller@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> that's true. mostly because there are a lot of suckers out there
> >> that
> >>>>
> >>>> still think hardware is better than software;)
> >>>>
> >>>> On 14-May-07, at 7:28 PM, Xdugef wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Well one thing is for sure is that it's much easier to sell
> >>>> standalone
> >>>>> gear for what you paid for or even more in some cases if it was
> >>>> custom
> >>>>> gear etc. Good luck getting your investment back on 3-4 year
> old
> >>>>> software. ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> AD
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> in music, both academic and popular.  music that uses presets
> is
> >>>>>> largely deemed inauthentic and therefor has less cultural
> worth.
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> it is quickly exposed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I guess what I mean to say is that to 'start' in microsound
> >>>>>>> shouldn't necessarily mean finding the right software package
> >>>>>>> first. Is this too idealistic of an approach to creating
> music?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> you mean by making a kazoo out of wax paper instead of buying
> a
> >>>>>> computer? or maybe recording the colliding beads of an abacus?
> >>>>>> microsound is digital music. it is computer music.  at the
> most
> >>>> basic
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> level, you need to be able to either manipulate or generate
> >>>> digital
> >>>>>> data.  for that you need a digital computer.  if you are
> getting
> >>>> into
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> microsound as a genre, then i might add the need to manipulate
> >>>> music
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> at the microsound level, through some kind of granular
> >> synthesis,
> >>>>>> let's just say.  so any software should have these elements.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Maybe this has nothing to do with the original question
> >> (surely,
> >>>>>>> there are many more answers to be questioned when starting to
> >>>> make
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> this kind of music than just what software is in use), but I
> >> just
> >>>>>>> have this uneasy feeling in my gut when it comes to music
> >>>> software
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> these days. Everything is trying to be everything to
> everybody,
> >>>>>>> which is probably why stuff like max, sc and pd are in such
> >> large
> >>>>>>> use with people on this list (at least), because they are
> >>>>>>> programming languages, not software packages.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> there is definitely a kind of elitism here.  just because
> >> someone
> >>>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> an expert programmer certainly doesn't make them a brilliant
> >>>>>> musician.  programming can be music. but it can also just be
> >>>>>> programming. in this kind of community there is often a sense
> of
> >>>>>> authenticity that comes from writing all the code oneself. 
> but
> >>>> what
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> really counts is the end result.  one could spend years
> learning
> >>>> how
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> to program an ableton live style program in max/MSP. or you
> >> could
> >>>> buy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> the software and spend a year making music on it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> and learn how to take something designed by another and make
> it
> >>>> your
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> own. just like playing the trumpet.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> adolf sax and joh coltrane don't have a hell of a lot in
> common
> >>>> other
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> than the saxophone. coltrane didn't have to built one from
> >> scratch
> >>>> in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> order to revolutionize music, push boundaries, and express his
> >> own
> >>>>>> individuality and human spirit.  the same goes for software.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The point was hit home with me when I was (thoroughly)
> enjoying
> >> a
> >>>>>>> listen to Download's new album, "FiXeR", with a friend of
> mine.
> >>>> In
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> the middle of some really cool section or break or something,
> >> he
> >>>>>>> pipes up "HA he's using Live for that, i've used that same
> >> exact
> >>>>>>> pattern" and it kind of ruined the listening experience for
> me
> >> at
> >>>>>>> the time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> live doesn't have a sound, per se (although in the past i have
> >>>> argued
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> heavily that software environments lead to particular musical
> >>>>>> aesthetics, particularly in loop based music, such as techno).
> >>>> maybe
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> he was referring to one of the effects, such as beat repeat.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My buddy isn't at fault for this, but it proves there is a
> >>>> certain
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> approach to listening to electronic music these days that is
> >> more
> >>>>>>> "how did he do that?" than just plain listening.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> see glenn gould on this and why he stopped playing live.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My friend personally knows better, but I think there are a
> lot
> >> of
> >>>>>>> people that just want to replicate what they hear instead of
> >>>> being
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> inspired to create something new.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> yes. but these are the first steps to learning a musical
> >> language.
> >>>>>> imitation might be the sincerest form of flattery, but it is
> >> also
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> way language is learned, mastered, and, ultimately, evolves.
> >> just
> >>>>>> think how a child begins to speak a language.  eventually they
> >> may
> >>>> go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> on to write a great novel.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Folks too often seem to want to know why 'technically'
> >> something
> >>>>>>> was done instead of what creative process on the back-side
> >>>> inspired
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> that something to be done.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> true. but what is more useful and interesting? the story of
> >> newton
> >>>>>> getting hit on the head with an apple? or the actual theory of
> >>>>>> gravity? i'd say, both:)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> graham
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -m
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
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> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
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> >>>>>>> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
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> >>>>>> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
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> >>>>> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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