From: isjtar <list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: microsound <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: microsound <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Getting started Date: Tue, 15 May 2007
00:58:24 +0200
On May 14, 2007, at 9:42 PM, Steffen wrote:
On 14/05/2007, at 18.20, isjtar wrote:
max has better documentation
I don't want to start a flame war, but i'd like to know,
preferable in great detail, what makes that statement true.
ok, to shield me from flames, i only know reaktor up to version 4
and documentation there really sucked.
i know the PD docs are always in progress, but i'm still not
impressed by what you can do with it.
compare a max helpfile to a pd helpfile from a programming
language illiterate point of view and you catch my drift.
feel free to prove me wrong btw, i'd love to recommend people good
pd docs.
i come from a zero mathematics background and learned synthesis,
composition, max and the whole shebang by myself, which i thought
impossible at the time.
so, in max, you start with the max tutorials.
they're pretty good, though a bit dated and midi oriented. if you
work through them all, you get the max logic and most problems
should be solvable.
they really go small steps at a time, you don't need any prior
knowledge.
msp (the sound part) is pretty easy if you've done the max
tutorials and know you're way around synthesis and processing.
if you don't know a lot about sound it's a bit hard to get into
dsp but once you do, things come quickly.
admittedly, fft is a pain.
then the jitter (image, video, 3D, abstract math stuff) tutorials
are pretty good, mainly because i feel the language is very well
designed. better than msp, very structured and elegant.
it can be a bit frustrating that it takes quite a while before
you learn to play a simple movie, but you grasp the concept all
the better.
i need to mention that i took these on last, so i don't know if
it's harder if you don't know the others first.
the 3D tutorials suck btw, ours will be online soon - shameless
plug i know : ) will post here soon.
then you have third party ones by peter elsea and others.
after all that, there are a lot of examples included (which you
understand after the tutorials, contrary to reaktor),
there are easily accessible overviews of all the objects
and every object has a help patch which references to related
objects and clearly explains the use of the object.
furthermore, cycling is doing some topic specific online
tutorials and cookbook style items which are great for the more
advanced user.
the mailing list is extremely active, and helpful, but if you ask
people something that's in the tutorials, they will refer you to
them as this is easier for everybody.
you can make simple objects in JavaScript, documentation here is
ok but not great, you can find JS tutorials online everywhere.
then there's java and c api's, i haven't tried those as i don't
know the languages.
seriously, max documentation is pretty good compared to most
offerings, max is also a bit expensive.
i've earned it back a while ago and couldn't live without, but
it's quite a sum although it is imo much better spent than on
any sequencer style package.
no, i don't work for cycling and there's things about max i don't
like, but the tutorials taught me quite a lot.
hope that was helpful
cheers
isjtar
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