Re: [microsound] Why are noises popular

[Paulo Mouat <paulo.mouat@xxxxxxxxx>]

My point is simply that those composers weren't working in the 'glitch
as aesthetic' mindset, which I think was unclear and perhaps even
misleading in your post. Am I a glitch musician if I sample the
popping sound in audio equipment and compose a serial piece? Is Lou
Reed one because of 'Metal Machine Music'?

//p
http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0/

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Manannan Mac Lir <macdara@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> But does there not need to be a knowledge or at least response to the
> 'glitch' so as it then becomes an element and not simply a glitch, thus
> intentionally or unintentionally imposing some form of order on it and
> not simply being a glitch, in an improvisatory situation at least where
> there are more elements at play where does the boundary between a
> carefully constructed work disintegrating and a 'glitch' occur? Does
> failure itself not inevitably end up as part of the process regardless? I
> agree with you about the previous references being misleading because of
> their fundamentally compositional basis but then should you not go to the
> likes of Thelonious Monk as a possible starter and trace the phenomena
> from there because of the implementation of necessarily chance elements
> in an overall stable(initially) environment that is necessarily
> time-dependant also? Although again it is being employed very
> deliberately and not as a glitch I suspect once you are even aware of the
> possibility of a glitch occurring it necessarily renders a 'chance'
> operation impossible . So where can the ideal 'glitch' come from if there
> is an aesthetic? Does the acknowledgement of its existence not
> necessarily render it an arbitrary element on some level if it occurs?
> Again I'm just postulating.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Paulo Mouat"
>  To: microsound
>  Subject: Re: [microsound] Why are noises popular
>
>  Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:01:10 -0500
>
>
>  Except that none of the examples given is purposefully 'glitch':
>  Reich's piece is just the seminal phase pattern composition, where he
>  explored music as a gradual process, and in fact intended the
>  slippage
>  to act like a continuous transition, going over all possible rhythmic
>  combinations; Nancarrow explores complex relationships using strict
>  forms, in a blur impossible to recreate with human players; Ligeti
>  has
>  a touch of the organic in an otherwise 'mechanical' aesthetic,
>  arising
>  from his fascination with mechanisms, exploring metric irregularity
>  (in fact, a better example of breakdown in Ligeti would be his 'Poeme
>  pour 100 metronomes'--there's a video on YouTube if you're not
>  familiar with the work). I would hardly call any of these, all very
>  deliberate and carefully constructed pieces, an exploration of the
>  'aesthetics of failure'... Just like saying that Xenakis' 'Concret
>  PH'
>  is the first instance of clicks and cuts :).
>
>  //p
>  http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0/
>
>
>  On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 8:00 PM, Manannan Mac Lir wrote:
>  > I think one of the first instances of a glitch employed as an
>  aesthtetic
>  > element in a musical composition could be Steve Reichs Its Gonna
>  Rain
>  > where you've got a recording of a preacher on a tape reel where its
>  > slowly slipping further and further out of sync with the original
>  loop.
>  > Steve Reich, Terry Riley and Lamonte(?) Young were all into loops
>  but the
>  > others in a more continuous fashion. You should definitely check
>  out
>  > Conlon Nancarrow's Player piano studies which kind of transcend any
>  > standard interpretation but would fit in interestingly in your
>  > discussion, also Gyorgy Ligeti's Piano Etudes. All these guys would
>  have
>  > been heavily influenced by African Poly-Rhythms particularly from
>  Ghana
>  > and the Aka pygmies in th Congo. The rhythmic cycles employed are
>  vastly
>  > different from standard western ideas and open up a whole new world
>  of
>  > rhythmic possibilities. Essentially the idea is many separate and
>  > distinct rhthms being played simultaneously where there is no one
>  > dominant pulse or a multiple at different speeds, to me some of the
>  pygmy
>  > music sounds glitched rhythmically anyway, there's way more I dont
>  have a
>  > clue about but it's certainly an avenue, Nancarrow in particular
>  I'd look
>  > out for.
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "Paulo Mouat"
>  > To: microsound
>  > Subject: Re: [microsound] Why are noises popular
>  > Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:04:54 -0500
>  >
>  >
>  > I think the biggest reason behind the validity of noises in music
>  is
>  > simply 'why not?'. For the roots of that I would point you towards
>  > the
>  > writings of Luigi Russolo, John Cage and Pierre Schaeffer. I'll let
>  > others more conversant with the glitch aesthetic expand on the
>  > specific influences.
>  >
>  > //p
>  > http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0/
>  >
>  > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:40 PM, js-alexander wrote:
>  > > Hello all, I am writing for a seminar on the glitch aesthetic,
>  and
>  > I want to
>  > > explore the reasons "why" noises etc are a valid source material
>  > for music.
>  > >
>  > > My research has pointed me towards who and where glitch began,
>  > specifically
>  > > in terms of the digital era (one can trace its legacy far beyond
>  > the
>  > > invention of computers), and I am partly inspired by Cascone's
>  > "aesthetics
>  > > of failure", with the idea of a post-digital artist. I am
>  > interested in
>  > > hearing what others, especially those deeply involved in the
>  > creation of
>  > > glitch, have to say on why they compose with the sounds they do?
>  > Why are
>  > > you inspired to use such sounds, and why do you think others
>  enjoy
>  > hearing
>  > > them and please be as academic/philophical as you like.
>  > >
>  > > Cheers.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > >
>  > > Johnny.
>  > >
>  >
>  >
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