Re: [microsound] completely OT yet so on-topic

[Jeremy Tolsma <ccws@xxxxxxxx>]

>
> I agree with Andrei: tell it to the people in those countries and see what
> they have to say about this.
>

Why?  If Romania is chiefly populated with the same illiterate peasants that
their puppet dictators are plucked from, are they going to have a broad
perspective on economics?

> if you say 'too bad you think those are the only options', then I think
too
> bad he doesn't mention some alternatives.

If I mention alternatives, you tell me to go tell them to peasents in
Romania so that I will get my teeth bashed in!

> I very much agree with David, when he says that there are ideal systems
> (communism might be ideal, I agree, if everybody submits to it), but that
> they don't always match up with reality.
>

Most of the things you guys are focusing on are byproducts of communist
economics.  Yeah, maybe things would be more equal, maybe they wouldn't.
The point is the economics of capitalism is flawed and unless that gets
fixed we're doomed.  Its possible that neo-Keynesian economists could fix
the capitalist model so that it works, but in the 70 years since the
depression predicated the need for a true understanding of capitalist
economics, they have not managed to come up with a capitalist economic
equations that work, even on paper.  When they're fighting inflation they're
creating stagflation, and so on.  They just can't manage the balancing act.

Forgetting about democracy altogether here, I'd prefer to ask you to
envision a world where capital cannot be leveraged.  When does capitalism
become organized crime?  If Tony the loanshark charges 25% interest, in most
capitalist jurisdictions thats illegal.  But the bank can charge 10 or 13%,
whatever is allowable by law.  When you look at that way its quite obvious
that capitalism is a government-sanctioned criminal activity.  What if there
were a law against any interest on loans and savings?  Now thats something a
true 'conservative' should be able to get behind!  Perhaps if people were
not too afraid to even attempt to envision such a thing it might be possible
to acheive it through democracy.


> I was responding to your enthusiasm of communism, and your disinterest in
> democracy (because the US is just a bad example?).

I expressed no enthusiasm for communism, I expressed a distaste for
democracy only because so far in history it has only been used as a tool by
the ruling class.  I express distain for the ruling class because so far in
history the bad things they've done far outweigh the good.  And before you
paint me as a moralist, by 'bad' i mean mis-managed.

I could accurately be labelled an anti-capitalist, but I dont think I like
the label of communist if it means that I have to tell Romania peasants that
puppet-dictators are a national treasure.