Re: [microsound] is MAX/MSP neutral??

[paul webb <paulwebb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

MAX/MSP has a particular method and underlying
representation of how it creates the music and has
choosen a particular user  interface. This will make a
tendency for the user towards certain ways of thinking
about the music and musical structures and the
interface will make the design and selection of
systems easier in certain ways than others. i think
this has a deep and profound effect on the music that
gets created. 

paul




--- Julian Knowles <j.knowles@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> jon <transmit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> >  i think this might have something to
> >do with the fact that i don't use midi software,
> nor any of that max/msp
> >shit, or something like that.
> 
> 
> i don't know that the  brand of car you drive is
> _that_ important.
> 
> max, pd, jmax, supercollider, reaktor, granulab,
> audiomulch 
> whatever... its more to do with the person at the
> wheel... (beyond a 
> very basic level, that is)
> 
> 
> >so, it got me thinking in a basic
> just-worked-another-night-shift kind of
> >way.  i suppose this might be something loosely
> related to tech(nolog)ical
> >determinism when i ask if you think new or at least
> more varied sounds and
> >ideas result from a more unusual technical
> arrangement/context.  i mean,
> >it's sort of true when they say everybody is now
> using max/msp just like
> >they were using the same vst plugins a year ago,
> 
> 
> but max/msp does not sound like anything, just as a
> toolkit does not 
> presuppose what will be built. besides, all those
> vst plug-ins will 
> run in the new msp... ;) so how will you tell what
> someone is running 
> without looking at their screen? i'd venture to say
> that what people 
> run is pretty unimportant by and large. What's more
> important is 
> their maneovering within the environment.
> 
> I think what you mean is people using other people's
> _patches_ 
> instead of making their own
> 
> this is something entirely different again.
> 
> people personalise patches to their musical intents
> and sonic preference.
> 
> that said, two people playing the same patch can
> still sound 
> completely different, which is why computers are
> musical instruments. 
> an artist's musical decisions are as important as
> anything else and 
> have a profound effect on the sonic outcome, unless
> of course the 
> patch is almost entirely algorithmic with little
> opportunity for 
> human intervention.
> 
> 
> >and i think it really does
> >show when you listen to a lot of new electronics. 
> i think that within the
> >microsound/abstract realm, there is still a lot of
> convention and to a
> >degree, conformity when it comes to form and sound.
> 
> 
> you are running a modernist argument... ie music
> must be original/new 
> to be of any value. i don't really subscribe to
> this. a lot of 
> excellent work pays debt to the music that precedes
> and surrounds it. 
> music is a conversation and sometimes people agree.
> 'convention' or 
> stylistic commonality doesn't exclude good music.
> that said, an 
> important ingredient for good music is often a
> liberal dose of the 
> artist's personality, or at least a foregrounding of
> their interests 
> as part of a comversation with others that share
> them. i am very wary 
> of the 'originality' argument, as i really can't
> think of any music i 
> would call truly original. music doesn't seem to
> work like that, 
> because it is a cultural product. you can't make
> music outside of the 
> culture you inhabit, and i'm not sure it would be
> worth the trouble 
> or make the music any better
> 
> 
> >anyway, fire some thoughts back if you please.  i
> haven't slept all night,
> >so if this is a totally banal post, i'm sorry to
> have inflicted it upon you.
> >
> 
> not at all - its good to talk about music
> 
> regards
> 
> julian
> 
> -- 
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> j  u  l  i  a  n     k  n  o  w  l  e  s
> senior lecturer in music technology
> electronic arts co-ordinator
> school of contemporary arts (music), university of
> western sydney
> web: http://www.geocities.com/socialinterior
> 
>
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