RE: [microsound] Re: McFree

[David Miller <damille@xxxxxxxx>]

>Did someone say history?  Is it fair to mention foundations built on slave
>labor, genocide, war, and colonialism, then?  I hate to bring it up, for
>fear of sounding like a broken record....wait, that's a good thing...how
>about sounding like a soppy liberal?...but look at the G8, and tell me they
>don't ALL (my ignorance will give Canada a break, however, their unreal
>amount of natural resources gives them a bizarre global advantage) have
>some sort of rancid history that increased their economic standing,
>arguably much more than any sort of "free market": United States, Britain,
>Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Russia.

none of these countries have slave labor today.  or did i miss something?
and russia?  they only recently adopted a similar system to our own.
and within the last what, month or so, they adopted a flat tax system
that people are ACTUALLY paying!!!  and their economy is getting better for
it.

>Really, stop kidding yourself that the free-market has been responsible for
>your good fortunes.

don't fool yourself into believing that because of slavery in our country
over 100 years ago, that we're sitting in nice air-conditioned
houses/apartments/offices/whatever.

>Freedom is not a "wonder of capitalism,"

who ever said that it was?
don't misinterpret what i said, nor take it out of context.

>If anything,
>capitalism is an product of freedom, not the other way around.  But,
>besides freedom, we need to consider things like justice, equality, and
>sustainablility,

and in a truly free system, these things wouldn't be a problem.
tell me though, do you REALLY want your government to tell you what makes
a person equal to another person?  if you say yes...  then i feel sorry for
you.
because that's what this type of thinking leads to: a government-controlled
set
of values forced upon individuals in the name of freedom, equality, justice,
etc.
as far as businesses are concerned, yeah, maybe people SHOULD be paid more
than they are for some jobs.  but you cannot for one second argue that
the company paying them has some sort of moral obligation to their
employees to pay them more than the market standard for such a
position.  maybe they SHOULD...  but they don't HAVE to.

the point here, is freedom.

>so, really, to gape in awe at the amazing freedom that
>capitalism supposedly brings is pretty myopic.

who said that capitalism brings freedom?  i thought it was the other way
around.
but don't both systems complement each other?

>>it's a beneficial system whose focus remains not the company, but those
who
>>continue to benefit from the economy: the consumer
>
>If it is so beneficial, why are the vast numbers of people NOT benefiting
>from it ????  Because they haven't gotten with the program?  Or, perhaps,
>this program is making their own ideas about a program incredibly difficult
>to survive?

what are you talking about?  seems to me that you're suggesting that
your tax dollars should go to buying milk and bread for a household
that doesn't, at the time, benefit from a job, or from not enough money.
that's fine.  but it also seems that you're suggesting
a system that pays for your doctors visits, etc.
i've already mentioned this, but systems like you're suggesting that
currently exist
also don't have the quality of these programs that we do here in the u.s.
and i'm glad to have access to them, even though they may not be free.
i can trust that my medical care is good.

i'm actually honestly ALIVE today because of it: i had heart problems,
but we'll save THAT for another thread...

david


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