Re: [microsound] microsound as pop music

[Beni Borja <beni.borja@xxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrei" <andrei@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "microsound" <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] microsound as pop music


> On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Beni Borja wrote:
>
> > I'm certanly more partial to the populist view ( the majority is right)
than
> > to the elitist atitude ( "the learned""are right and the populace is
always
> > wrong) . But I don't think that's the case here.
> I think only people who adhere to a populist mentality believe in the
> concept of elitism. Easy to ostracize people who don't share your views by
> throwing that tag at them.

Andrei,

As my all-time favourite pop-icon  Marley  use to sing : "If the cap fit,
let them wear it".......... I never ever had the intention to call you
elitist , I was just trying to be honest to my own views...
I'm never trying to "tag "you anything....but let's face it...elitism exist
way beyond populism...




> > When you're talking of pop music , you're  completely ignoring artists
like
> > Frank Zappa, Pere Ubu, Sonic Youth   and scores of others that were able
to
> > create music that due to "the non-instant gratification musical content
> > their of work" "did not appeal to your sort of average cd buying Joe".
>
> Personally I'd say those artists are quite easy to digest, mainly because
> there's a lot of visceral appeal to their music, which to me is a defining
> quality of pop music.
>

Please explain what in the world is "visceral appeal"........?????



> > This not mentioning the realm of jazz/improvised music , where
> > for sure you would find artists from Cecil Taylor to Anthony Braxton,
> > that are anything but "instant gratifying".
>
> I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Yes, of course their music
> can be very difficult listening, just as much so as Xenakis and his ilk.
> Especially Braxton's, in my opinion. With Taylor there's still a lot of
> visceral power to it which can give you something to grasp on to, but
> Braxton's music can be really impenetrable. There was a time when I was
> trying to be a jazz musician and I had fantasies about studying with
> Braxton, but I've come to have mixed feelings about his work since then.
> God, that "Ghost Trance" stuff....



What I was trying to say, was the despite the fact that Braxton, Taylor,
Redman, Muhal Abrams  and many others created  highly "non-instant
gratifying music"they were always labeled as jazz, which meant very little
academic support for their creation..... meaning they spent most of their
livelihoods fighting for space in the pop/jazz field.





> > As for your claim that there's no way in hell that Xenakis or
Stockhausen
> > would have a chance of making the pop charts any time soon. You should
> > probably take a deeper look at the charts, there's stuff on the rap
records
> > of the  Billboard top 200 that sonically  would make even the hardcore
> > avan-guardist cringe.
>
> Yeah, those Manny Fresh productions make me cringe too. ;-)
> But seriously, what are you referring to ? I'm puzzled.
>

I'm referring to sound , the ultimate object of our discussion , in terms of
pure sound , rap has some of the most daring and adventure soundscapes
ever created, ..don't you think??





>
> Andrei
>
>
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