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Re: [microsound] RE: [personal] Re: [microsound] war



Hi Mark,

I know what you mean.  But often I wonder whether protest can cope with
the power of images and subliminal influences.  Frankly I no longer
think so.  Images and arguments work on two different levels.  No matter
how much I TALK and DISCUSS  the power of images is stronger.

I do have a choice?  If I would wear a shador here, I would be
considered a lunatic, an anomaly or a religious fanatic of some sect. 
Noone can opt out of the culture in which s/he was born.  And I don't
want to really.  All I wanted to say is: I hate this complacency and
self-righteousness to assume that we in the West live in the best of all
worlds or to assume that all cultural changes are "progress".  

I had a long conversation with my turkish neighbour a few days ago.  She
said, German women think they are so much freer than we are.  But all I
see is that their burden grows every day.  They have to be a man and a
woman at the same time: they have to be pretty, young, earn good money,
"be a man in their job", have a good education, a good job, children, do
their households, care for their partners, etc.  While the men in this
country are no longer men; they are eternal boys without assuming the
responsibilities of a man (nor a woman).  I had to swallow hard, but I
knew what she meant.

And to come back to the thread of war and democracy.  It is a very
hopeful sight to watch how many people protest in those countries whose
governments are officially pro US-Iraq war.  But still their governments
do what they please -- look to Spain, Greece and Italy.

Basically I agree with what you said but then again ...

Dagmar

mark wrote:
> 
> "Being German I am not "forced" to cover 95% of my body.  But to be
> honest; often I would prefer to do that rather than be forced "
> 
> You make some extremely good points - however the issue here is the word
> "forced". You
> have a choice (including to protest against it) in your reaction to the
> portrayal
> of the female form - you can help educate people you can try and change
> things. You
> will not be imprissoned for this or ostracitzed by the people you
> consider family and friends.
> 
> Unfortunately this is NOT the case for those living under more millitant
> Islamic law. They
> truly are second class citizens and have no choice in the matter - being
> forced to
> cover up is only the outward sign of something much deeper (and
> something you clear understand
> as your points about western culture reflect).
> 
> The question here is choice - no matter how much we would like to change
> things here in the west
> and how bad our govnerments are percieved to be - we do have one vital
> thing - the power to
> protest without worrying about imprisonment or torture or ostracization
> (often just as powerful
> a tool as the others.)
> 
> Democracy is not the power to vote - it's the power to protest.
> 
> cheers
> 
> mark
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dbuchwald [mailto:dagmar.buchwald@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 07 April 2003 10:32
> To: microsound
> Subject: [personal] Re: [microsound] war
> 
> spw wrote:
> >
> >
> > When people are forced to believe in a religion and women are forced
> > to cover 95% of their body that's stone age mentality BULL SHIT.
> 
> A humble female opinion:
> 
> Being German I am not "forced" to cover 95% of my body.  But to be
> honest; often I would prefer to do that rather than be forced to cope
> with the tons of artificial female bodies on screen, in mags, in
> commercials and so on.  No, they are not covered at all, but the
> pictures are 'enhanced' to make them ever more perfect, surgery for
> 'beauty' almost seems to be a 'must' these days.  They do not appear as
> individuals but as 'types'; there is no selling of cars, tools,
> computers, wenches, screwdrivers whatever without a barebreasted girl
> presenting them, smiling like bambi in Disney.  As a woman in the
> Western world you should better not grow older than 19, because after
> that you are no longer 'dainty' and 'cute.' Have you read the latest
> statistics about the ever-increasing rate of aneroxia and bulemia in
> Western countries -- everything just to 'live up' to the standards of
> cartoon ladies, models and starlets.  Why don't you just accept that
> there are women in the world whose bodies are not exposed to your
> scrutinizing glances?  Women whose social status gets higher once they
> become older than teeny age, not lower as in our model world?  Woman who
> bear children without caesarean operation (that this operation becomes
> more and more common is due to two facts: a) women getting slimmer and
> slimmer so that they can no longer birth children in the natural way; b)
> for beauty reasons: better a scar than growing a little bit rounder
> around the hips).  Why don't you accept that there are countries where
> women are still allowed to keep some secret about themselves rather than
> being always 'on full display'?
> 
> In countries where women are veiled there is an old tradition of
> expressing your sould and desires through the eyes.  Eyes as windows of
> the sould -- does that ring a bell at all?  At least they are granted a
> soul and are not reduced to long legs and dainty tits.
> 
> Even the feminist movement has stopped wailing about the shador and
> tried to see that phenomenon more differentiatedly.
> 
> I hate it when people assume they know what is best for others (stuff
> which is in truth just better for them).
> 
> Dagmar
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