[microsound] Re: [mcrosound] mnmalsm

[Julian Knowles <julianknowles@xxxxxxx>]

I think there are some good questions here tobias [and you've got me 
thinking]

I don't have pretend to have the answers, but the questions you raise 
may help us unpack some of the issues. I'll have a go at some.

>
> What constitutes an analytic definition of "fashion" in this context 
> and how
> does it differ from practices that are apparently fashionless, zero 
> degree
> fashion, i.e. "out of fashion"?

You can blame me for introducing that word!!! I know you have found it 
incredibly problematic and i can understand that. I  think what I was 
trying to separate out was the pursuit of a set of musical ideas which 
arises from a deep commitment and critical engagement, from a 
'flirtation with' and  emulation of the sonic outcomes  of music which 
exhibits such a commitment. Before anyone screams 'value judgment!!, i 
think this issue does need some consideration before it is written off.

Ian presented the reality check that some of the music arising from 
surface engagement/emulation is very good, however. I'm not sure this 
negates the point i was trying to make, however.


> I think these sorts of questions need to be pursued; otherwise,
>
> - minimalism's influences from non-Western forms of thought and 
> practice are
> negated, effaced

could you elaborate on this a little?

> - a history is written using concepts developed during a "history" to
> postulate the framework of the "history" (mastery, fashion, 
> discipline, the
> beautiful (why not the sublime?), and the concept of "category" itself)

Agreed and i think it is important to question our theoretical 
frameworks. The at times subjective or culturally constructed nature of 
such frameworks,  however, does not mean that they are useless or 
without value. It is more that we need to be aware that fact and that 
multiple critical frameworks are possible (desirable). This is why it 
is good to have a number of people confronting these issues. It makes 
for a richer conversation.

> - the point of _rupture_ within any history is negated, effaced in 
> favour of
> including all manifestations of an apparent "minimalism" as 
> "minimalism" in
> a linear, uninterruptable narrative that struggles for, in this case,
> "addition": "Thirty to forty years on, we need to have something to 
> add to
> that body of work."

On the contrary, As i raised in my previous post, 60s minimalism was a 
deliberate attempt at rupturing the linear history (read hegemony) of 
European modernism. As such, it constituted an important contribution. 
A rupturing force can be an "addition", as in "the straw that broke the 
camel's back". Many would argue that the most important contribution of 
60s minimalism was to break the back of European modernism.


>
> How does this contrast vis-à-vis Richie Hawtin's publicized notion of
> "subtraction" when he began M_Nus records in the late 90s, shortly 
> after the
> Concept:96 series?
>

If this is the kind of subtractive process you are referring to

""I recorded, sampled, cut and spliced over 100 tracks down into their 
most basic components. I ended up with over 300 loops,        ranging 
in different lengths. I started to recreate and reinterpret each track 
and then put the pieces back together, as if an audio jigsaw puzzle – 
using effects and edits as the glue between each piece". '" [DE9: 
Closer to the Edit]

then i would say, Hawtin has applied minimalist principles to DJ/remix 
work, where the thinking is in terms of audio samples rather than 
scored patterns. I'm not sure how significant this is. It doesn't feel 
like a radical departure, more an application of similar ideas to a new 
context. So in terms of 'adding' (i would not get too hung up on the 
word play, i think it diverts us from the issues at hand). you could 
say that Hawtin is demonstrating how such ideas and aesthetic positions 
can be applied within newer contexts and there is a contribution 
(addition?) to be made there.


> What does it mean to "add" to a "history" of possible movements of
> "subtraction"?

It means to contribute to the ongoing investigation of the principle 
itself. I'm not sure where the difficulty is here, aside from the word 
play. I may however, be missing the point you are trying to make (if 
indeed that is your intention by asking this question).

> Isn't the DJ a minimalist insofar s/he doesn't "add," but remixed in a 
> flow,
> via a recombinant logic, the archives of music?

I would not say recombinant processes are minimalist by nature (which 
is where I understand you to be leading with this question). I can 
perfectly imagine maximalist recombinant processes and maximalist 
approaches to DJ-ing.

In what way are recombinant processes inherently minimalist? Because 
they rely on the re-use of existing materials? It's an inordinately 
large sonic universe out there....


> Shouldn't today's "fashionable" minimalism be investigated as to how 
> it has
> developed its (diverse) concepts, or subtracts from the concept(s) (or
> "histories") to forge sound possibly for reasons other than what the
> framework of this analysis will allow, including but not able to 
> include
> minimalism which would proceed by no "concept" whatsoever?

i'm not sure i follow you here - are you arguing for a minimalism based 
on no prior concept?

this is a theoretical extreme that i find hard to imagine in real life 
-- ie how can one make music with no preceding concepts?

taking your 'no precedence' idea to an extreme, you are suggesting that 
a theoretically original music is possible [cf modernism] and this  
would seem to be a highly discredited proposition....

>
> Thus, is a minimalism without a concept wrought through critical reason
> "fashionable"?


i argued in my preceding post that i felt it ran a higher risk... (see 
comments on 'fashion' above)


> ps. Sure sure, I'm being rough: but the question is, why write a 
> history of
> minimalisms that seeks to inscribe it into a logical ordering of 
> categories
> and back into the narratives of Western music?

Could you propose an alternative method, and/or an alternative 
narrative?

Regards

Julian