Re: [microsound] In the Defense of Max (was: development environment)

[Michal Seta <mis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

John Nowak <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> I much prefer this method to that of Pd. At least in Max, I can look
> and see exactly what will happen. In Pd, which resolves ambiguity via
> order of object creation, I haven't the slightest clue what will
> happen when looking at it. The right-to-left nature of Max often makes
> code easier to read, saves time, and if treated with the slightest bit
> of care, never causes any issues.

PD has the same right-to-left principle.  The ambiguities arise  in
situations where there are several patch chords originating at the same
outlet.  I have run into ordering ambiguities problems with Max in the
past (note that it might have gotten much better in the past 4-6
years) and order forcing/ensuring I learned with Max, in fact.  Regardless
of theoretical premise of the right-to-left principle, taking the
necessary steps to enforce the order in a crucial situation is simply
good practice.  Treatment with the slightest bit of care :)

>  > On the
> negative side, as many people have mentioned, it doesn't scale
> well; large programs tend to become heaps of spaghetti unless
> one spends inordinate amounts of time laying them out.
> 
> Again, if you encapsulate properly, you should, generally speaking,
> never have more than 20 or so objects visible in any one patch. I
> rarely, if ever do. Hardly a mess.

I do agree with the fact that (visual) dataflow languages don't scale
well.  Regardless of how well you encapsulate and abstract, large
projects are not easy to manage.  However, I don't follow Max
development and I haven't been near it in years, maybe it makes it
easier now.  I speak from a point of view of a PD user.

I do agree, however, that 'heaps of spaghetti' whether laid out or not
are bad programming habit.

../MiS


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