[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [microsound] Derivative Music
>
> But at the same time, derivative thought gives way
> to inspiration. Would
> Cage have ever thought to dig inside the piano if he
> had never heard Cowell
> do it first? DID he hear Cowell do it first? (I
> don't know the answer)
other things to add but short on time. i think cage
must have but i don't have the evidence to hand. but
you know cowell i think created the first western
recordings of gamelan music in the late 1920's or 30's
so cowell is for sure an influence on cage in that
respect...i think the prepared piano cage alleges came
from when he wanted to have an african drum ensemble
in one (rather large albeit) box for a performance
with some dancer...but my memory could be faulty...
>
> So then, would you have to dichotomize derivative
> *sounds like* from
> derivative *made like*?
>
> There's an enormous amount of musical history, and
> for every composer there
> is a certain amount of derivation in his or her work
> simply by the fact that
> they choose to work in a style or medium.
>
> In fact, it's more unique to find a NON-derivative
> artist, and questionably
> so. Even Derek Bailey derives his techniques because
> he holds the guitar
> traditionally or uses distortion when he plays
> electric or touches the
> strings with his fingers or a plectrum or both. As
> wonderfully non-idiomatic
> his music is, he's probably one good example of a
> musician where the
> derivativeness exists, but is extremely worked and
> polished down and bent to
> his will.
>
> I'm personally a lot more interested in the
> non-derivative lean of things.
>
> On 2/23/06 7:15 AM, "jeff gburek"
> <tsazmaniac@xxxxxxxxx> scribed:
>
> > at another pass, it occurs to me sampling and
> > turtablism make derivatives more traceable,
> conscious
> > and deliberate...wheras derivative style for an
> > instrumentalist comes from appropriation of
> techniques
> > into one's body (for the guitarist in the fingers
> > patterns or slide technique or putting the guitar
> on
> > the table, putting objects between the strings:
> these
> > are techniques at getting a sound and the sound
> may be
> > called derivative if you are enamoured of thinking
> > that way (derivative thought). but to say a piece
> > derives from previously realized musical work, say
> we
> > take a sample of strings from ligeti, that's a
> > different kind of deriving, like grafting skin,
> > eventually it becomes assimilated to the new
> tissue
> > and the old form which contains its own genetic
> > material, moves forward as part of a new opus...
> >
> > --- jeff gburek <tsazmaniac@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> when?...it derives from mathematics no?
> derivative
> >> functions...from thereon it functions in other
> >> contexts just as a metaphor, in genetics etc...
> >> culturally it is moot since sampling is
> >> simulacral--another discourse-- and derivative
> style
> >> means one imitated and or pastiched--to mold
> >> something
> >> from pre-stuff...when i was young you had to cut
> >> your
> >> own style...but when we said this it did not mean
> to
> >> be popular...it meant to stand alone...very
> >> ethical...these days most will think of something
> as
> >> music only after it had been popularized
> >> (classicalized) and this latter is a process of
> >> insertion into a scale of hierarchies whereby its
> >> individuality is perpetually deconstructed by a
> >> process of comparisons and associations with
> >> established norms. my answer then modified:
> >> derivative
> >> music occurs "naturally" with reprodcution and
> >> disssemination of products and nothing prevents
> the
> >> original from being cheapened to the point of
> >> uselessness. that is the devastating anti-
> culture
> >> of
> >> capital. it is similar to a process of
> assimilation
> >> of
> >> language but different because style is a late
> >> decision (it is: appropriation) in life and it
> shows
> >>
> >> social forces and one's resistance to and bending
> >> toward conformity
> >> -jeff gbk
> >>
> >> --- Risonanza Magnetica - S
> >> <s@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm not talking about "influence", but
> >> "derivative",
> >>> maybe it's easy
> >>> to confuse it?
> >>> Anyway, i'll try to propose the question in a
> >>> different way: when
> >>> this idea of derivative is born?
> >>>
> >>> best,
> >>> sim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Il giorno 21/feb/06, alle ore 18:29, mat.the.w
> ha
> >>> scritto:
> >>>
> >>>> The problem is that you can say this about
> >> pretty
> >>> much any music.
> >>>> There are
> >>>> countless style progressions and a very rich
> >>> musicological heritage
> >>>> shared
> >>>> amongst musical 'genres', as far back as the
> >> first
> >>> composers began
> >>>> imitating
> >>>> one another.
> >>>>
> >>>> You've touched on more of a meta-description of
> >>> artistic
> >>>> development, in my
> >>>> eyes. Maybe something more descriptive of the
> >>> style itself would
> >>>> make more
> >>>> sense?
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2/21/06 9:21 AM, "Risonanza Magnetica - S"
> >>> <s@risonanza-
> >>>> magnetica.com>
> >>>> scribed:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi everybody,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd like to suggest you what do you think
> about
> >>> the concept of
> >>>>> "derivative music".
> >>>>> I'm considering this in the field of
> post-punk,
> >>> specifically referred
> >>>>> to the the post-punk scene in Sao Paulo,
> >> Brasil,
> >>> during the eighties,
> >>>>> as "derivative" of No Wave scene in New York.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This concept should be valid also for a bigger
> >>> part of electronic
> >>>>> music field, i'd like to know if someone knows
> >>> about a specific study
> >>>>> on this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Simone B
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Risonanza Magnetica
> >>>>> http://www.risonanza-magnetica.com
> >>>>> info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Tel +39 0523 713363
> >>>>> Mob +39 328 8619930
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
>
=== message truncated ===
j.ff gbk
http://www.futurevessel.com/orphansound/
http://www.mattin.org/desetxea.html
http://www.djalma.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: microsound-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: microsound-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
website: http://www.microsound.org