Re: [microsound] Re: the system... GROW UP

[arelar33@xxxxxxx]

 Jesus Christ, will you wankers shut up with your bloody manifestoÂs. last I knew, this was a microsound list.seems every time anyone mentions politics or anything in anyway related then we all have to lidten to the big guns come creeping out of their shaky holes to remind us what the official ÂmicroÂline is on all this. Really, I am so tired of it. If it wasÂnt for all your preious theory then I reckon most of you people wouldnt have an original thought in your heads. Yes..hear it again...your heads are hollow without someone elses THEORY. I feel like being insulting, ludicrous and making sweeping generalisations..why not..I have endured two weeks of it from the rest of you. Life is so much more than making sure thjat everyonme else has read what you ahve read. Remember this..Unless it is working in practise...It is theory. Theory is exactly that...no matter how much you think it makies sense. I cant even be bothered correcting my typos here (i am on a rickety keyboard in Barcelona..and yes some of us do work (quietly) around the world and dont feel  like letting everyone know about it) because I m just so angry about this wholÃe argument and the pathetic squalid way that the spat developed in the first place. Some of you are just too old to be so fucking arsey about this stuff..really!
 love to all
Rob
 
-----Original Message-----
From: tastyradish@xxxxxxxxx
To: microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 8.01PM
Subject: [microsound] Re: the system that works for the great deal of people



ok. one last response. 
****

no, imho, the crux of the matter has EVERYTHING to do with ACTUAL manifestations 
and mechanisms of power and privelege, that are historical and ongoing. These 
are mystified and obscured by a complex number of elements. But, through 
analysis, discussion, language, thought we can come to understand
what is actually happening. 

And it has nothing to do with speculating about the potential of mankind (for 
good/evil/greatness/shortcoming, etc. etc..)

Speculating like this is engaging in a humanistic plane of thought. This means 
that your argument falls back/hinges on a discourse of Humanism. It is always 
bracketed by Humanism. Humanism (a very popular and widespread discourse in our 
1st world culture -- taught in schools, relied on in advertising, etc. etc.) 
is involved in notions of what man "is", and his potential.  It is primarily 
ahistorical. Most importantly, it heavily promotes the idea that everything 
comes back and originates to and from man's qualities of ____ (fill in the 
blank). Try it out! You'll see how easy it works, almost all the time (which 
should give pause for thought...) -- and also how quickly
it steers the thought/conversation away from looking at the power-structure/history 
to a portrait of "Man" as kind of ahistorical being...   
So, it essentializes "man" on one hand, and on the other is a convienent way of 
sliding out of actually dealing with power as it is happening, and as it is 
being struggled with, on the ground, historically and at present. (Humanism as a 
discourse does have a connection, as it has developed historically, with 
important ideas of "human rights". I am not 
arguing that humanism should be abandoned, but rather that it has a limited role 
in understanding what is actually happening politically). 

A more historical sensibility argues things like we -- each and every human 
being -- are born *into* language/culture/history *already going on*. It did not 
originate from "man", but rather developed in all kinds of ways, not neccesarily 
"progressively" but thru a myriad of interactions. Ways which we can analyze and 
understand. Not neccesarily totally and forever, but with a certain degree of 
healthy, truthful understanding and awareness.
This gives us actual insight and power (as knowledge, at least) into what is 
going on, and has occured, ASIDE from speculation (even theologies) about "man"! 
A very useful thing.   

A historical view of power doesn't put man's (possible) essences/potentials at 
the center and origin, but rather emphasizes how people are in the (present) 
history of regimes/power-structures/social orders, first and foremost.  
Collectively.  

Then one can understand and analyze those regimes/interactions, etc. on their 
*own right*, with or without speculations about man's "essence". 

Lastly, Humanism is consistenly used to apologize for the Liberal state. 
Apologetics prevent understanding and the development of tactics/strategies/etc. 
Apologetics mystify. 

>That has little to do with capitalism as such, or communism as such, 
>and 
>everything to do with man's shortcomings as a being.

>Anyone can be greedy and defraud/enslave their fellow human.
>Anyone can be cruel and powerhungry.

>Just ask the poor souls in the capitalist pig sweatshops.. or those 
>that lived under a communist system.
>Each are/were equally enslaved by an elite class that oppressed them 
>and 
>took the majority of the wealth generated for themselves.

**********

Here (below) is humanism combined with social darwinism. Also, a way of 
thinking/interperting which slides out of x issue at hand, relying on 
essentialist ideas of the "human" collapsed into some kind of idea of the 
natural state of societies. 

Evolution occurs over long, long time periods. It also contains many radical 
shifts (accidents, etc.). 
Darwin wrote of survival of the fit. 

"hierarchy" doesnt' occur in animals all the same way, at all, including the 
Human. 

it has many manifestations, to the point where it becomes plain sloppy to 
pre-suppose some kind of same old hierarchy all the time. 
Sometimes 'hierarchy' is loose, sometimes it is a hard military line (speaking 
about Nature...). 

So, if your model is evolution, check out the many variations that exist. Nature 
is pretty wild.   

 
>We are still on a biological level intelligent predators with a 
>heirarchal 
>social structure, and most people still behave that way to some degree.


>More power to those that attempt to find better ways to be.

Everytime you attempt to go beyond the obscurations, you are on that road! 

I don't mean to give you a hard time, or anything like that. 

Rather I really think that humanism, social darwinism almost completely obscure 
what is happening. 


Free Your Mind.. (you know the rest), 
-Andrew


        
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