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Re: [microsound] points, dots etc.



Whoa there Kim!

So you have got a grasp on this? You raise serious questions about
commercialism and free markets granted, but I certainly hope there will
never be any one individuals ideology such as Marx ruling politicians
thoughts. I guess one could say that much of the way American democracy has
progressed has been the result of Emerson and a few other's dating back to
ancient Greece. The fact that it has been working and works well for a great
majority of people in countries that implement it cannot be denied. But the
heavy handed, in your face and down your throat tactics that are currently
being used by Bush and Co. are not the way to promote such ideology. I
believe in the free market self correcting itself and yes I feel we are in a
homogeneous cycle that reminds one of the* Leave it to Beaver* 50's Utopian
atmosphere that is smothered in hypocrisy, will shift and we may see a
return of a more liberal society once again.

The Rupert's of this world are not happy and don't mind spreading it with
their power, but they get old and die one day, leaving their legacy to a
mundane board of directors that may eventually *follow* the market trends
without manipulation within the political arena such as Rupert has clearly
done. To sum it up, I am not happy with the currents that are now shaping
events, although I see it a little more optimistically than the portrait you
have painted in your points, dot's etc statement.

Mark Ragsdale

S. Korea
On 7/12/06, Kim Cascone <kim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >>>> if free markets are so great, why does america lead the world in
> >>>> per
> >>>> capita prison population? in obesity? in weapons sales?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> How the HELL do any of those have ANYTHING do to with  MYSPACE?
> >>>
> >>
> >> oh my goodness...go read Adorno and Gramsci!!!
> >
> > Oh my goodness, I've read a metric shitload on the subject.
> to be brutally honest here: it doesn't sound like you have any
> background whatsoever in Marxist theory or anti-capitalist philosophy...
>
> especially, since you ask me to draw the (obvious) connections
> between how capitalist superpowers foster compulsive consumer
> behaviors via advertising...
>
> and do I really need to spell out how the myth of free-markets has
> been hoisted on you/sold to you in order to keep you buying into the
> american dream i.e., upward mobility of the lower classes in
> capitalist society?...it's an illusion; a cruel hoax that keeps
> americans thinking they're entitled to 'moving up' and while doing so
> selling their labor with little protection from exploitation while at
> the same time consuming the worlds resources at a much greater rate
> than most other countries combined...
> and all this happens without us ever questioning what the impact of
> that upward class movement might have on the rest of the world...case
> in point: WAL-MART...i.e., affordable goods (mostly) made in China
> for the lower classes in the USA...you can look and feel just like
> the upper classes by having the same crap they do -- at a fraction of
> the cost!
>
> and please don't ask what that has to do with marketing/data mining
> operations like MySpace and AOL and other places where the owners
> care little to nothing about innovation or building
> communities...they just want your free labor and constantly invent
> ways to get it from you while they make you smile...your 15 minutes
> of fame on MySpace = someone else's lack/misery somewhere in the
> world no matter how many degrees of separation there might be...
>
> and someone made a very good point about CD distro and credit cards
> etc...yes, this can also be said of playing any part in a capitalist
> society - but at least some of us try to explore options that might
> be available to us as consumers...and I know that anything I buy
> *always* embodies someone's surplus labor...especially, if it was
> made in a poorer part of the world...but I digress and that could be
> an entire post in itself...
>
> you want to put up a site on MySpace and be a part of a 'community'?
> fine, that's your right...but don't try to tell me that it is totally
> separate from market manipulation and insidious consumer programming
> by the corporations and that MySpace somehow reflects a free-market
> based on some utopian meritocracy - because at best that is naive -
> at worst its dangerous...
>
> MySpace and others of that ilk are all about uncovering/spotting
> hidden trends so they can profit from them and use the data to
> further hone the marketing machine of popular culture...in other
> words: all the data MySpace collects is used to feed the trend
> analysis algorithms so corporations can better target you as a
> consumer...
> especially the youth market...why? so they can sell you more crap you
> don't need...and when you're still living on mommy and daddy's dime
> that is a disposable income they want a chunk of...
>
> we're running towards an Orwellian future without one whit of
> questioning and IMO americans are the worst of the lot...and why we
> have had Gov Bush pretending to be our president for two terms while
> the puppet-masters hide in the background committing acts of violent
> cowardice and gleeful treason which would have resulted in nice long
> prison terms in most other countries: because people are being
> trained not to question things or connect the dots for themselves...
>
> we should be leading the way in provoking people to question, doubt,
> think for themselves, not follow blindly, etc. but what do we do? we
> fill the world with our trash and pollute it with our inane pop
> culture...dunno about you but I want no part of that future...and as
> Derrida (who no doubt is a part of your 'metric shitload') said:
> 'there is no future without Marx'...
>
> unfortunately, we don't learn about Marx in grade school; we have no
> streets named after him nor do we have any statues of him in public
> places...so, you won't hear the names of Marx/Engels/Adorno/Gramsci
> et al uttered - without a hushed invocation of the 'red menace', the
> cold war or the 'failure' of communism in Russia - until you hit
> Uni...unless you are lucky enough to have had a latte-sipping,
> birkenstock-wearing, Sartre-reading teacher enlighten you in high
> school...
>
> but look, I've already pointed it out to you - even provided a quote
> from an interesting article on MySpace in WIRED: markets are coerced
> and directed by corporate robber-barons such as Rupert Murdoch...what
> more do I really need to say here?
>
> here are two books you might want pull out of your 'metric shitload'
> and re-read:
>
> guy debord - society of the spectacle
> http://www.nothingness.org/SI/debord.html
>
> raoul vaneigem - revolution of everyday life
> http://www.nothingness.org/SI/vaneigem.html
>
> more info here:
> Situationism:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situationist
> http://www.nothingness.org/SI/
>
> those might do a better job of refuting your points than I can...
>
>
>
>
>