Re: [microsound] Relevance returns?

[Kevin McCoy <km.takewithyou@xxxxxxxxx>]

I feel what you're saying too, but tools come with implications - that's
been the point of some others here from what I understand.  There are a
wealth of contributing factors that play into the function, acquisition, and
manipulation, and context of tools that can't go ignored when you talk about
a tool, right?  What those are and their role is the substance of debates,
but that they exist as important (essential?) factors is as I understand it
is well established.

X doesn't exist alone by itself without inputs and variables except in pure
theory, which is often bad news for accuracy.  It's really hard to get away
with talking about x by itself and be accurate because x is manipulated by
so many other things - that's the collective mess of culture.   You are
right that it is in this sense experimental, theoretical, and I agree.  So
the whole out of control myspace thing is really about these surrounding
intrinsic factors.  I found the points about the cream rising to the top
quite valid, but it occurs in context, context, context of a lot of other
things - I think we agree on this basic premise?

Glad we're regaining civility!

Kevin

On 7/12/06, Jason Hollis <contact@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I feel all of what you're saying, and appreciate greatly that someone
> managed to work some _civility and relevance_ back into the thread.
>
> But I still fail to see how 'a tool is a tool' is anything but a purely
> experimental expression -
> If you have an (x) and it suits your purposes, use it how you see fit,
> hopefully to the benefit of all.
>
> We don't have the biggest claws or teeth or armor plating..
> We are tool using primates that use our minds and our technology to
> survive
> and thrive, be it bone flutes or supercomputers.
> Just how it is.
>
> And whether it be good or bad is all in the choices we make with what we
> have.
> If that's determinism, believing in the possibility of progress...
> Determinism it is, I guess.
>
>
> ~ !J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com
> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Owen Green" <owen@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "microsound" <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 5:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Elitism is next
>
>
> > Jason Hollis wrote:
> >>a tool is a tool is a tool.
> >
> > The problem with this attitude towards technology - by far the dominant
> > one - is that it leads to one of two false conclusions. If you hold it
> to
> > be non-value laden and subject only to its own logic in development you
> > end up with a determinism where we have to meekly accept what technology
> > (now a supposedly autonomous force) foists upon us, for better or worse;
> > OTOH, if  you believe technology to be non-value-laden but in the
> control
> > of human development you're left putting your faith in an idea of
> > 'progress', itself basically another form of determinism.
> >
> > I find a lot of what Andrew Feenberg has to say on the subject
> > interesting:
> >
> > http://www.sfu.ca/~andrewf/
> >
> > In the case of myspace, one very obviously value-laden aspect irritates
> me
> > intensely (aside from the amount of personal data they're desperate to
> get
> > one to part with), which is that when setting up a music page you're
> > corralled into choosing a genre from a pre-selected list of nonsense
> > industry-created labels, with the result that one gets shoved into
> > 'experimental', 'electronica', 'ambient' or some such. This is
> value-laden
> > in that it both discourages people who don't feel comfortable slotting
> > themselves into one of these pigeon holes from signing up at all, but
> > moreover, by clumping all square pegs into a undifferentiated glob under
> > generic headings, the heading's meaning is (further) diluted, the search
> > function basically just doesn't work as well (because you could end up
> > with just about anything under those banners), and as such the
> > functionality of site is trammelled for those people.
> >
> > --
> > Owen
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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