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Re: [microsound] Greenpeace and apple




no problem aleks as I personally wouldnt really enjoy someone who likes to debate contantly ... it gets annoying



On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:

No thanks, he seems too angry to have a logical debate with.

aLEKs


On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:13 PM, Derek Mason wrote:

Will you two go and drink more Egg Nog and be merry.

Create a Rant-n-Rave list and go at it.





----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Wiernik" <neil@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: microsound <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Greenpeace and apple
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:11:01 -0500 (EST)



my point is that you argue things in excess, you fight other
peoples battels for them and more over just like to hear your voice
speak and for what NO REASON that I can see!!! jesus!!!!!!

regarding your short sighted comment about ibm is that your sitting
here and dissing apple when 99.9999999999999999 percent of all
things produced for consumer wants/needs are opressing someone some
where so like I said put a sock in it, no one really wants to hear
your whining its a known fact that we all know adn live with... if
you want to be perfect go live in a cave in the mountains and eat
dirt and run around naked but even tehn youll opress come thing
like the tiny bugs and bacteria youll kill when eating the dirt and
the grass youll sept on running around naked
not to mention the sexual abuse youll enforce on the poor animals
as they are forced to watch you running naked through the mountains
... thats just terrable I think we should censor every thing as
evil as its the only way we can live clean no opressive lives!!!
(if you take this reply as serious dont even bother)



On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:

In regards to flame wars, your the only one that seems to respond
with anger and spite when someone offers a differing opinion.
Reread the thread, your the only one that insults anyone.

IBM developed technology for the Nazis, as did many corporations
that are still around today.  I still do not see how Greenpeace
has anything to do with IBM and the Holocaust.  How do you know
what types of computers Greenpeace uses?  Gimme some point of
reference.  And if they do use technology that was developed
decades after WWII what does it matter?  Does that undo the good
that they do?  Do you suggest that they cease to exist because of
IBM checkered past via WWII, developing technology that is not
even in use today for the most part?  Should use apple/mac who
uses impoverished asian work forces to assemble their
uber/expensive sheik design friendly computers?

aLEKs





On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:43 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:


no Im saying that greenpeace if not using a mac most likely in some form or manner uses IBM products which IMHO as a company are far more worse then apple ever will be in that IBM supported and built technology for the nazi's in world war 2. sp the technology that navigates thier ships or Im sure the laptops they use are ibms if not apples machines also... so before they stick thier foot deeper into their moths they should stop and think is what Im sayign get it now????

you keep telling me offenxe and that your not being
condescending but you and the other person what ever his name is
are and mor eover you say how much you hate flame wars but both
times I have posted recently it has been you that manages to
create a flame war, by your stuborn arguments... your entitled
to your opinion just like I am leave it at that !!


On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:

I do not see how his response was condescending.  It was a
response to your claim that Greenpeace is hypocritical with
their ideology.  Which i also agree is a rather weak argument
on your part, no offense intended. Green peace cannot be
compared to IBM.  IBM's sole motivator is profits. Where Green
Peace ideology is global conservation.  All of their resources
go toward raising awareness in regards to mans inability to
live in balance with his environment.  Sure they need modern
technology in order to operate with any sort of effective
impact.  They do so with a lot of foresight.  Are they perfect?
No, nothing is perfect really in this world, but to claim that
they are no different then mega corporations, or entities
driven solely by profits is misguided.

It is true that everyone is entitled to an opinion.  What
predicates a solid opinion is that it is well thought out as
well as being based with a solid point of reference, i.e. facts.

Again no offense intended.

aLEKs


On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:

his responce was extreemly condisending...
towards me and towards any one else that might think
diffeently then he does...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:
You are a crass individual.  His rationale is logical and i
do not see how it can be misconstrued as overbearing, just
the opposite actually. You need to relax and stop being so
defensive.  If everyone was to act as you do this list would
be one giant flame war.  What are you even being defensive
about? I am honestly having a hard time deciphering your
response?  His first response was a very logical and well
thought out observation.
Have some respect...
aLEKs
On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:01 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:
oh shut up and put a sock in it no one here wants to hear
your upper class white bread mombo jumbo!!! pretentious twit!
its so simple to speak from the ivory tower hidding behind
your white academic elephant... try getting into the thick
of it knee deep in tear gas, police sticks and rubber
bullets then come talk to me!
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, xe non wrote:
it drastically oversimplifies the situation which makes it
at best misguided.
Neil Wiernik <neil@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
its not a wierd rant at all...
its basic look in your own trash can before complaining about others
trash...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, xe non wrote:
what a strange rant...
yes, every environmentalist struggles with the
contradictions of being "in the world" when it comes to
effective activism and they make thier peace with the
compromises they know they will have to make somewhere
around thier sophmore year at college. yes, they will
probably have to use cars, yes they will have to live in
buildings made with wood, yes they will use electricity
and do thier work with wasteful and toxic technology...if
they choose to stay engaged with society in order to help
change it yes. this is a realists approach. will they
minimize all this...most likely, as best thay can.
i suppose greenpeace could eschew all the tools of the
modern world and try to communicate the information they
have and coordinate thier campaigns from a computerless
shack in the woods in order to meet your peerless
standards for acceptable activism, but we all know how
well that turned out for the unabomber and all concerned.
this campaign is an unusually refreshing for the effective
way it calls attention to the problem of toxic waste from
computers in general. targeting the company with the most
eco-friendly public image that it doesnt live up to, seems
an effective way to accomplish that goal. at least it is
done with good-humour and stays focused on the problem, or
do you prefer the kaczynski method?
xe
Neil Wiernik wrote:
the larger question is does green peace use computers at
all as if they do
they to are part of the problem and not the solution if
they want to spin
things that way any how...
why dont they look at how computers as a whole work for them...
rather then against..
Im sure they use a fine number of IBM products and we all know who IBM
helped in world war 2... i think rather then talkign like
they are holier
then now they need to look in thier own back yards.. I
mean what powers
thier boats GAS who makes the GAS...
I am a political person but when grassroot organisations dont take the
time to look in their own back yard before pointing
fingers it pisses me
off!!!
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Steffan De Turck wrote:
unfortunately Greenpeace is more about demonizing
specific companies then making a POINT
e.g. Shell instead of Exxon Mobile, BP, Q8, Texaco,
Esso etc. etc. etc.
and now Apple?...
It seems a bit too trendy a campaign for me -- why
not talk about
all PC manufacturers, the full scope of the
problem, and work for
enacting national legislation following the
progressive European
lead in this area? Targeting a single company
seems gratuitous...
Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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