Re: [microsound] A Remark about the list(apologies)

[Zander Nord <zander.nord@xxxxxxx>]

Hmmm, I think it was me they accused of the WIRE thing ;=3D)

Let me also say that I have no problem with everybody and his sister=20
self-releasing every fart they happen to record. More power to the=20
people. I might start doing this myself but on the other hand I like my=20=

current status as a hobby-composer too much - I make music just for me.

My discussion was about being on the other side of this. Trying to find=20=

something in this flood of releases worth listening to. To do this you=20=

have at your disposal a number filtering methods you can (and must)=20
use.  They are all more or less dumb-ass of course but what can you do?

Dont bother with the hateful responses. Your thoughts and views are=20
valid and interesting. And dont worry about being a newcomer or not.=20
I've been listening to, and working with, electronica (mostly=20
electroacoustic) since the 70s and the more I learn the less I know.=20
And it sure is more fun to know less.

s=F6ndagen den 24 november 2002 kl 08.25 skrev fatih kizilgok:

> Hello!
>  I would like to say that I am sorry I pissed some of you off.
>
> I agree it was wrong for me to mention Twine in particular, but it=20
> seems like his/theirs are the main e-mails I see without anything=20
> other than concert info/virtual flyer. So, I am really sorry that I=20
> mentioned this in public, I should have went and talked to him. but, I=20=

> am still critical about what he said about other musicians from mego=20=

> and merzbow. Also, like I did not have the right to voice my dislike=20=

> of the twinesound in a public venue without their presence, I am sure=20=

> some should also be cautious about expressing their anger because the=20=

> band is very important for them.
>
> I remember somebody saying they can not afford advertisement, that is=20=

> why they publish their info on these lists. I understand this is done=20=

> in order to build a community too. But, I wish this list could be seen=20=

> more than a gear, release list, and actually it is very active in=20
> other discussions, but maybe a way to filter the ads would be awesome.=20=

> I think an advertisement is an advertisement, it does not matter if it=20=

> is done by cnn or somebody here. In our times it is only unfair to=20
> talk about corporate corruption while doing the similar things in our=20=

> lives, that is bombardments of whatever...
>
> I am sad that people said I am close-minded and I am a newcomer. what=20=

> kind of an eliticist view could try to eliminate people like me, A=20
> NEWCOMER to this list ( I would not say I am a newcomer to music=20
> though.) while accusing me of being a WIRE eliticist? I am sorry I did=20=

> not want to sound like I know everything. Like you said I am a=20
> newcomer and maybe what I say is wrong, but why accuse me of something=20=

> I obviously am not? I am sure like most of you I am trying to embrace=20=

> the music with whatever that comes with it. these critical discussions=20=

> about existence, reason, meaning can not be disregarded. I would like=20=

> to discuss it. Actually, After reading everybody's posts now, I kind=20=

> of understand the importance of this list as whereabouts message=20
> medium. Maybe with some kind of filtering those of you who want to get=20=

> concert and cd updates could get it while those of you who don't=20
> won't. I remember looking at http://www.microsound.org and reading the=20=

> manifesto saying this is not a music-making/gear list. If that=20
> manifesto is still applicable, I think what I say should not be that=20=

> off-limits, right?
>
> I also got accused of just ranting in here as a newcomer mumbo jumbo.=20=

> If I really was here to piss people off, I would write an e-mail that=20=

> writes:
> MICROSOUND LIST AND EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN IT SUCKS .
> and leave it at that, but since I have gotten some things from this=20
> list not only relating to music but other things as well, I felt like=20=

> I have to voice my opinion, I HAD TO SAY WHAT I THINK! Now, If I am=20
> not welcome here for whatever reason, I apologize to everybody, and I=20=

> will not post again. But I encourage you to think before accusing!=20
> before calling people names! and before creating a hardcore microsound=20=

> thug mafia that have been here since day one ( I DO UNDERSTAND AND=20
> TRULY ADMIRE YOUR DEDICATION THOUGH)
>
> On the other hand, i understand we are at an age of everybody does=20
> everything, the suppreme DIY-ethos, but I would like to discuss the=20
> future of digitalism and where it is going. Because, these times bring=20=

> about huge dilemmas with them. For once, the people who say they do=20
> not like the way the music business is working, but do take actions=20
> who resembles the corporate arena. I mean just because somebody is=20
> poor is not an excuse for free advert bombardment. Or is it? what is=20=

> the difference between a million dollar ad and a free one here? It=20
> seems like they both come up to you when you did not ask for it, It=20
> seems like they both take your time and perception which could be=20
> better spent on things of interest and willingness. If this is all=20
> about creating a small public sphere, a post-community about a certain=20=

> common interest that we are sharing maybe this list should not really=20=

> be open to everybody, and to mostly the ignorant NEWCOMERS like me.
>
> I also remember somebody writing about the shortcomings of the current=20=

> Record label situation. I definitely do agree. Not everybody is lucky=20=

> to know somebody from the industry and too bad that is the way things=20=

> work. But, maybe things could change for better. Would not it be=20
> better if there was an appreciative system, a filtering mechanism that=20=

> will pre-filter the junk out of the genuine and without prejudice over=20=

> musical/artistic decisions/styles serve it to the audience? Or is the=20=

> "be your own judge", and release it if you think it is worth it, a=20
> better solution for modern times? But, what about the possibility of a=20=

> non-practitioner consumer/audience? Do they really have to be so=20
> attentive and be exposed to every thing that is out there before they=20=

> make their selections? Humans can only live for so long, and maybe if=20=

> we did not have to deal with bad-art, bad politics, bad music, bad=20
> attitudes that are freely premanading  around the virtual and real=20
> circles, we could reach a better intellectual state without also=20
> assuming the role of a filter like a brain-kidney cyborg, leaving the=20=

> filtering to the kidney(a pre-filtering, better functioning=20
> museum,curator,label) and the apreciation to the mind (the audience).=20=

> Of course on the other hand, there is the argument that states more=20
> choices bringing more variety to choose from for the masses. This is=20=

> akin to the croni free-market economies that are functioning in all=20
> over the world now. Free-market is the ultimate utopia that hopefully=20=

> everybody is longing for, but I do not foresee it happening unless=20
> there is serious change in how humans function. Our need for and=20
> longing to create a society causes little groupings, little=20
> friendships that we make in order to function more efficiently and=20
> watch out for each other. In our days, these groupings are either Bush=20=

> shaking hands with his oil cartel (his friends) to decide whether to=20=

> attack Iraq or not, or, the people who are on this list who buy each=20=

> other's cds and go to each others concerts for support or inner=20
> improvement. Don't get me wrong the first is scary and dangerous while=20=

> the second one is innocent. The problem is that actually these two=20
> acts stem from the same human condition. This is why I try to see how=20=

> would taking a stance against the advertisements who caused the=20
> failure of pre-modern demand&supply economics evolve. I would like to=20=

> see people come up with systems that will allow people the choice of=20=

> being selective about what they want to hear or be exposed to. I am=20
> not sure how this could be managed, maybe we should wait for the=20
> decyphering of the human genome, or wait for the organic cpus,=20
> interfaces between our brains and machines.
>
> Well, I am terribly sorry, I took so much of your time today/tonight.=20=

> I understand this place is not somewhere for people to come and do=20
> therapy (I think I sound like this do not I?) But, this would be my=20
> last post and I just felt the need to explain myself a little bit=20
> more. the last thing I want to do is to manage to put those of you who=20=

> I do not know in anger while you could be somebody that I would=20
> respect and look up to for the rest of my life. By the way, I am from=20=

> Turkey thus my english could be very limited, I hope it was not too=20
> much distraction.
>
> I would love to discuss other positive things I love about this music=20=

> and the ideologies that are flowing above my head here and in most of=20=

> the other art that I experience, but I am very tired now, and I am=20
> sure you are too. So have a good night/goodmorning. Thanks for your=20
> patience.
> Fatih Kizilgok
>
>
>
>
>
>
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