Re: [microsound] music is the ultimate incorruptible

[jeff gburek <tsazmaniac@xxxxxxxxx>]

stephen, thanks for your comments and you pretty sum
up what i was driving at before my wireless fritzed
again. there is a big difference between a percieved
hierarchy of sounds in a rendering than the
superficial tendencies in a social hierarchy. and
contrary to what may be believed from my previous
posts, i actually prefer misprisciouns of cage over
orthodox cage except in this instance where the ideas
are reduced to "all the world is a symphony" (which it
might be) which tends to be a way of dismissive of
cage rather than generative. i wonder what you make of
radu malfatti with rerspect to cage? 
best, jeff

--- Stephen Hastings-King <roachboy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> a very long thread this.
> 
> 2 points:
> 
> i think the question of power in relation to the
> making of music is not
> being framed in the best way: power presupposes
> hierarchy which in turn
> presupposes a conception of hierarchy and what kind
> of relation one should
> adopt relative to hierarchy..
> 
> i am interested in improvisationally based forms
> (which can include
> composition, can include composed elements etc.)
> because while there may be
> hierarchical arrangements that emerge---that is,
> there may be separations of
> function that develop which involve, say,
> foreground/background features
> (players adopting a more comping relation to
> activity that takes place in
> the foreground, which operate as traditional lead
> instruments)----they are
> revocable within performances and renegociable
> across them.
> hierarchies may transpire, but they are not
> understood as top-down
> structures that are given in advance--there is no
> assumption that one need
> defer to these arrangements simply because they
> exist.: hierarchy at a given
> time is among the emergent properties of an
> improvisation as a group
> activity.
> they do not in any way presuppose deference or
> repetition.
> this is in line with the distinction between
> autonomy and heteronomy
> outlined in the writings of cornelius castoriadis.
> 
> this changing relation to what amounts to a division
> of labor within a given
> piece is among the aspects of performances that
> recordings wipe out as a
> function of the simple fact that recordings fix the
> elements of
> performance.  projections on the part of a listener
> fill in the space left
> by the interactions of the players in real time.
> which follows from the fact  that a recording of an
> improvisation captures
> everything except the improvisation.
> this is neither a good thing nor a bad thing--it
> simply is.
> but it does mean that recordings are not the best
> medium through which to
> stage these questions of power relations within
> music.
> 
> i have been thinking about dropping complete, note
> for note webern pieces
> into this type of performance for a while now
> because i think it could be
> interesting as a constraint and could push things
> into areas that i haven't
> really explored.  but i haven't gotten around to
> organizing an occasion
> yet....
> this leans on a wider relation to compositional
> elements within which they
> operate simply as types of constraints,  as one
> option amongst a range for
> developing constraints that would push performances
> one way or another.
> 
> other point:
> i find that informed misreadings of cage can be as
> or more fruitful as any
> other, simply because the ways cage's work open up
> for thinking sonic
> organization are often more interesting than the
> ways in which cage himself
> chose to act upon/within them.
> at least for those of us who are not john cage.
> i dont see various approaches to cage as mutually
> exclusive.
> 
> personally, i prefer that misreadings be
> motivated--that is that they are
> aware of what they are doing and why they are doing
> it.  i suspect this is a
> function of having used cage's writings in different
> academic contexts for
> quite a long time and that i get bored quickly in
> conversations with folk
> who do not know what they are doing and why with his
> texts. but this is not
> particular to cage.  and is mostly a way of avoiding
> finding myself having
> already crossed that curious threshold that may or
> may not seperate boredom
> from crankiness before i am aware that i have..
> 
> 
> stephen
> 


j.ff gbk

http://www.futurevessel.com/orphansound/

http://www.mattin.org/desetxea.html

http://www.djalma.com

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