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Re: [microsound] Is choral music ambient?



I think Brian Eno's definition of "ambient" implied a music that was
unobtrusive enough to function
as aural wallpaper, while at the same time retaining a level of
complexity an structural interest
allowing for an active listening as well (unlike muzak or new age).
While renaissance polyphony (as Gregorian chant) might seem to fit the
category to our modern
ears (many people listen to it as "aural massage" , (often with
scented candels ;-)  and the music
itself is highly scientific in its construction , it's very essence is
liturgical, thus requiring a full act of participation.

Some of Satie's works can certainly be seen as ambient "precursors"
(Vexations et al.).
With all due respect but if Mahler is ambient, then Stravinsky is .microsound !

ciao


On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Matt Tierney <matthewdtierney@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> What lies the point in critical critique then, when the true answer is
>  always a contradicition, or an opposite?
>
>  There is no question.
>
>  On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 1:52 AM, Michael Palace <palace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>  > In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography,
>  > or
>  > what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define
>  > the
>  > kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . [b]ut I know it when I
>  > see it .
>  >
>  > I think that this might apply to ambient music.
>  >
>  > I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of music I
>  > understand
>  > to be ambient, but I know it when I hear it.
>  >
>  > Mike
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "Matt Tierney" <matthewdtierney@xxxxxxxxx>
>  > To: "microsound" <microsound@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>  > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:52 PM
>  > Subject: Re: [microsound] Is choral music ambient?
>  >
>  >
>  > > .,m
>  > >
>  > > The point is not to find out, but to read great responses like the one
>  > you
>  > > just gave...
>  > >
>  > > ~
>  > >
>  > > m
>  > >
>  > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:13 PM, craquemat <craque@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >> I personally have a problem with the term "Ambient". I remember one
>  > >> radio show I did at UMD where I spent the entire 3 hours playing (and
>  > >> comparing) music that was called "ambient".
>  > >>
>  > >> So that included music by Satie, Feldman, Cage, Richard D James,
>  > >> Autechre, If Bwana, John Zorn, and a handful of other "ambient"
>  > artists.
>  > >> Suffice to say none of this music sounds anything alike.
>  > >>
>  > >> Defining what falls into a category of "Ambient" is a task doomed to
>  > >> fail. "Ambient" music implies a relationship with the unnoticable, the
>  > >> unintentional sound present in our environment.
>  > >>
>  > >> I think people have conveniently used the word to describe everything
>  > >> from "music that you can't dance to" to "music you can meditate with"
>  > to
>  > >> "music you play in a haunted house."
>  > >>
>  > >> An album I released recently is described as "Ambient" but holds about
>  > >> as much relationship with the artists mentioned above as it does with
>  > >> R&B and Country Western.
>  > >>
>  > >> Given that ALL genrification is by nature subjectively exclusive, the
>  > >> term "Ambient" is especially bad; I put it right up there with
>  > >> "Classical" and my personal favorite "IDM". What some call ambient,
>  > >> others do not.
>  > >>
>  > >> So I'd ask you back, what's the point of finding out?
>  > >>
>  > >> A lot of what's considered "Ambient" has its musical underpinnings in
>  > >> non-western music, especially the Ragas and trance-like drummings of
>  > >> other cultures (which I might add are certainly extremely functional in
>  > >> those cultures, if not ours).
>  > >>
>  > >> So while one may call something Ambient, another may call it Downtempo,
>  > >> another may consider playing Gesualdo during a gallery opening as
>  > >> Ambient, while someone not so predisposed to classifying music would
>  > >> just enjoy it as choral harmony and not something "ambient" at all.
>  > >>
>  > >> Sometimes people use the term simply to classify the undefinable.
>  > >>
>  > >> .,m
>  > >>
>  > >> (ps - Strickland's Minimalism is a good one if you haven't read it yet)
>  > >>
>  > >> Matt Tierney wrote:
>  > >> > Hi, first post on the list... :)
>  > >> >
>  > >> > I asked on the Rhizome forum where I could find some descent
>  > discussion
>  > >> > online of avant-garde/experimental and 'other' musics. I hope this
>  > post
>  > >> is
>  > >> > suited to the overall vein of the list. If not I would glady accept
>  > >> > recommendations!
>  > >> >
>  > >> > -
>  > >> >
>  > >> > I'm reading Prendergast's "The Ambient Century".
>  > >> >
>  > >> > It's a nice idea for a book, a 'century' of ambient music... But did
>  > >> ambient
>  > >> > music really start with Mahler or Satie?
>  > >> >
>  > >> > What about 15th Century Rennaisance choral music like Palestrina,
>  > >> > Tallis
>  > >> and
>  > >> > many other similar composers from this period?
>  > >> >
>  > >> > There's something about this era that strikes an 'ambient' chord with
>  > >> me. Or
>  > >> > is the music too *intense* to be classified as ambient?
>  > >> >
>  > >> > I don't want to confuse *beauty* and ambience, but if I'm wanting to
>  > >> listen
>  > >> > to some ambient music, I'll often go for Tallis...
>  > >> >
>  > >> > What are others thoughts on this?
>  > >> >
>  > >> > Regards,
>  > >> >
>  > >> > Matt Tierney
>  > >> >
>  > >> >
>  > >> >
>  > >> > On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Paulo R. C. Barros <
>  > >> > paulorcbarros@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>  > >> >
>  > >> >> http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=jVCki_4DuyI
>  > >> >>
>  > >> >> Cheers,
>  > >> >> Paulo
>  > >> >>
>  > >> >>
>  > >> >>
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>  > >> >> website: http://www.microsound.org
>  > >> >>
>  > >> >>
>  > >> >
>  > >> >
>  > >>
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>  > >>
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > http://artmentaldisorder.blogspot.com
>  > >
>  >
>  >
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