Re: [microsound] Mac vs PC (linux information)

[Michal Seta <mis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Tjeerd Sietsma" <tsietsma@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> Oops.. with developers I meant people developing patches with PureData.
> PureData itself is already in beta stage, if not a finished product.

No it's not a finished product.  And Miller Puckette insists that it's
'experimental sofwtare'.  That also means that many things may change
in the design... for better or for worse...

> It's the 'recommended' Windows installer that installs all those
> sometimes pre-alpha libraries that can make your system instable.

It is true that some externs can cause crashes and headakes.  But this
was the case with MaxMSP as well.  In fact, when MSP layer was added
it was it that cased the most havoc.  People still bought it and were
happy.  I don't understand why most people are happy with buggy
software if they pay for it while they whine when it's free...  Don't
take it personally, I'm just generalizing and thinking out ASCII.

On the other hand I'm not even sure if what I'm saying applies to
today's MaxMSP.  I haven't used it in years (but I did have seen it
crash in some life performances....).

> Compared to Max/MSP you do spend more time patching your patches,
> because Max/MSP contains many prefabricated objects.

Ah.  That's whole different story.  A lot of patches have been
provided by the community over the years.  Keep in mind that pd has a
smaller user community and hasn't been around for so long.  Some users
have started making some abstractions to make the whole thing more
user-friendly for the newcommers:

frank Barknecht's RRadical project: 
http://puredata.info/community/projects/rradical/RRADicalWiki

David McCullum's abstractions:
http://mentalfloss.ca/sintheta/html/downloads.html

and here you will find pdjimmies (jimmies port) by Zack Settel:
http://tot.sat.qc.ca/fra/nslam.html

There are probably others around.  But these should get you started.

On the other hand, I think that the point of using pd is to roll your
own, but I do agree that having a collection of patches around is good
so that you don't reeinvent the wheel.

> 
> > BTW, what do you mean by incomplete functionnality in PD?
> Lack of prefabricated objects that allow faster development. Naturally
> you can make them yourself with PureData and/or C++, but that'll take
> longer.

as I said above...  but i don't think that lack of patches =
incomplete functionnality.  PD is fully functionnal and its function
is to allow you to program your own patches and offer you the tools
and fexibility to do it.  There maybe some flaws with some solutions
but it is a very capable system.  

> Costs are irrelevant. I like the b/w interface though, and prefer
> PureData instead of Max/MSP. Also Max/MSP doesn't run on Linux *yet* :)

I, too I'm waiting for the port :).... GPL'd :-)

> I agree, but opensource software is often well documented as all
> software should be. I didn't know the toggle in PureData could also
> remember numbers, if I only knew many of such details earlier it would
> have saved me days.

ok, well, the documentation lacks certain details.  But it is fairly
complete.  You can learn a lot about programming with pd if you read the
manual and study the examples and help files.

this is, btw, the way one learns MaxMSP (if one does not want to
simply dive into ready-made solutions provided with the package).


> I totally agree. But as you've said yourself, programs like Rosegarden
> are years behind, and this was exactly my point, the reason why most
> people choose to use Windows and/or MacOS instead.

Yeah.  The thing is that I started using Linux because I wanted to get
away from the mainstream apps :)  I'm sorry but sometimes I assume
that everyone else wants to do just that, although I know I'm wrong.


cheers
-- 
	      _
      __  __ (_)___   Michal Seta
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    /  	     V |_  \ @creazone.32k.org
   (___/V\___|_|___/
http://www.[creazone]|[noonereceiving].32k.org


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