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Re: [microsound] the great depression of experimental music? (OT)

Michal Seta <mis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


> however, if music is always a social activity, why is the usual
expectation of live concerts a one-way experience for the most part? 

Because a live concert concept has not yet evolved and is still deeply
rooted in the 19th century aesthetic (and previous centuries) of the
western culture.

interesting, and true. can you think of any alternatives to this, perhaps some that are already in practice?


> often the sales of recorded music far outstrip concert sales
of the same artists. it's simply not feasible for musicians to be in
as many places and perform for as many people as their recordings can
get to. 

That is understandable, too.  However, this does not seem to be the
driving force behind record sales (and now, online music sales).

i'm not sure i get you here. the driving force would seem to be desire to hear the music. if concerts were the only (or at least dominant) way for people to experience music, that experience would be limited on several levels: the duration of the performance, and the ability of the artists and the audience to converge in one spot. what do you believe is the driving force behind record and online sales? is it simply blind consumerism, fostered by greedy corporations?


> not only that, but in many cases (depending on the venue), 
 the concert setting makes additional changes to the music that are
 unwelcome, possibly diminishing rather than enhancing the artist's
 original intent.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

musicians who compose and record create their music with certain parameters in mind, such as acoustics and tone. frequently concert venues (whether traditional halls/clubs or nontraditional outdoor spaces) are dependent on sound reinforcement and acoustic challenges that alter these parameters, often in unwelcome ways. for example, autechre's clicks and pops are very carefully produced "dry" or with varying amounts of specific types of reverb and eq. experiencing music such as this in any setting other than headphones (or in an ordinary small room) changes the characteristics of the music they fought so hard to control.

i understnad that music, once it leaves the artist's hands, is by necessity going to change somewhat, but it would seem that an artist would want it to remain as faithful to his/her vision as possible. otherwise every piece may as well be uploaded to an interactive music site in multitrack form, allowing anyone to remix the work as they please. i know this has been done, but this is one option rather than the norm, nor do i personally see it as a desirable one. at this point in time it smacks of novelty, although in theory it's quite interesting and liberating.


> another point is, if music is always meant to be social, why are there
headphones?
[snip] 
   a similar argument
 could be made for listening to music in a car while driving alone; it
 is not social, but does interact with the environment.


You make valid points to justify archiving of music.  I agree with all
your points.  What I see around me, though, is that various recording
media are taking over the live aspect of music making.  Not to mention
that some of the 'live' acts rely on recorded medium.  Not that I have
a prblem with that...

i agree with you on that point. whether seeing musicians perform, or performing myself, i would theoretically prefer music to be "as live as possible". however, sometimes this isn't feasible. sometimes music is created to be intentionally inhuman (in a sense). prerecorded segments may be not only necessary, but preferred in this case.

in general, i also decry the use of pure playback, or close to it. but, since you brought up "spectacle" in your last post, one can say that sometimes this makes up for the "canned" aspect of the musical portion. there are also valid artistic possibilities that require part of all of the music to be prerecorded as part of the overall statement. however, i concede that these are rare.

i agree that this doesn't extend to lip-synching pop stars, or even musicians with 90%-100% MIDI- or laptop-driven content and nothing else to back it up and make the show worthwhile.


> one interesting exception of late has been gallery installations where 
 people are given headphones to listen to the same music (or perhaps
 different music) while they're in the gallery space.  they are free to
 be social and interact, but the headphones also cut them off from each
 other.  however, this is a specific artistic concept rather than a
 social norm.


Yes.  Various gallery installations, perhormances etc are a step
towards the liberation from the traditional concert setting.  The
thing is that recorded music does not do justice to many such
performances.  But I suppose, this too is a matter of personal opinion.

there are certainly performances that transcend the recorded versions. in theory, this should be possible more often than not. but there are hurdles i mentioned earlier, such as sound reinforcement and acoustics, not to mention the audience itself. if you assume everyone in an audience is after similar things in experiencing a performance, then everything might go well. but audiences introduce an element of chaos that isn't alwasy best for the music; sometimes audience members don't really want to be there, or show up to be harassing. in those cases they can detract from the other people's enjoyment of and interaction with the performance, or even disrupt the performance itself.

there are a wide variety of ways of making music, and some simply don't lend themselves to live performance very well. even the point of this list, microsound. to me suggests lots of processing, tinlering, and editing. i'm sure this is some bias of perception on my part rather than the truth; music that can fall under this term can probably be done entirely live.

there are also instances where a performance specifically involves prerecorded music, such as a highly skilled DJ cutting between 2 or 3 turntables (not simply beatmatching), or people triggering samples or tape loops to create a new piece that varies each time and interacts with the environment in a positive and even planned-for manner. again i concede these are exceptions, but without prerecorded music they wouldn't even be options.


> and yes, while the CDs themselves are mass-produced, i think i 
 mentioned in another post the option of custom packaging, in some
 cases done by the musicians.

This appeals more to me.

see if you can track down a copy of the release i mentioned earlier, nurse with wound/aranos "santoor lena bicycle". 1000 factory-pressed CDs, but packaged in large wooden chunks sawed down from original paintings by the artists. it also includes photos of the paintings before they were cut into pieces, two of which you can hold in your hands. that, to me, connects me to the work more tangibly than a digital file.


> i see this as more of a problem that the majority of the producers of 
 the medium are unimaginative and focus on profit rather than art.  it
 took years for CD packaging to become more interesting.  as the format
 matures, artists come up with new ways to make the medium part of (or
 at least fit with) the message.  after several years, these
 enhancements become more widespread.


I would not blame the producers alone.  The artists, too often, don't
stand up for themselves

yes, i guess i meant to include the artists as "producers" in that example, along with record companies and everyone else involved. although the examples i'm thinking of are generally so market-driven we can barely call them "artists".


> i don't beleive the explosion of the mp3
format has to do with quality. it has to do with ease of acquisition,
and price (usually free, especially if downloaded unscrupulously). 

Yes, but since the mp3 explosion other formats came that offer the
same ease of transfer and  price but with higher quality.
Unfortuantely most consummers don't see/hear the difference.

sad but mostly true. some do in fact hear the difference and think of mp3s simply as a way to check out music without taking a chance and blowing $14-20 on something which might suck. i still think a lot of people who love and collect mp3s are not paying for them. i know this is only one example, but one coworker of mine who was about to buy an ipod short-sightedly exclaimed, "this is great! i'll never have to buy music again!".


> i know this has been said before, but it's the digital, and thus 
 electronically transferrable, version of cassettes. people make
 "mixtapes" and trade songs.  not a terrible thing in itself, it can
 help to spread the music.  i love mp3s and the internet as a way to
 check out unfamiliar music; i think every artist should do it.  but i
 don't believe in this format being the final destination, but a
 sidestep.  think of it as a shortcut on your computer that leads you
 to the real thing.

I totally agree with this. 

so we're not completely on opposite sides, it seems  : )


> >HD = fixed medium = CD 
 >files on HD = files on CD

 now you've lost me.  if a file ultimately ends up on a HD (whether of
 a large computer, laptop, or ipod), why is that any better than the
 fixed medium of the CD that is "taking over"?


No, I am not saying it is better.  It is no different.  One and the
other are the same thing.  I am afraid, however, that the widespread
of CD, CD-R, mp3 etc has a negative influence on live performance
attendance.

ok, i see where you're coming from with this now. i also have to say the opposite can be true; a CD or mp3 can reach someone a lot easier than a live show (which often costs as much or more than recorded music). how will people know they want to go see a show if they haven't heard a recording first? unless there happen to be multiple artists on the same bill and by chance you catch another's performance.

i think there are many challenges to getting people's attention with music and art, and i'm open to as many as possible, provided they don't do the music a disservice. having my music on CD and mp3 clips available online has allowed people in countries i've never been to discover and enjoy my music. should i ever make it to those far-off lands, i also hope to give them a live performance they'll remember fondly.


d.

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