Re: [microsound] the great depression of experimental music? (OT)

[Michal Seta <mis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

chthonic streams <chthonic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> >Because a live concert concept has not yet evolved and is still deeply
> >rooted in the 19th century aesthetic (and previous centuries) of the
> >western culture.
> 
> interesting, and true.  can you think of any alternatives to this,
> perhaps some that are already in practice?

Yes I have seen various performance settings which transcended that
model.  One was listening to music in a pitch-black environment.  In
fact, even walking into the space revealed nothing.  You had no idea
how big the space was, how many people inside, where the 'stage' was
etc...  After that various artists/groups would perform, some
electronic music, others mixed with acoustic instruments and you could
see nothing and noone, not even the person sitting on the floor right
next to you.

I was also involved in a project this summer where a performer (a
cellist and video artist) did a performance in a parc.  She was
sitting under a tree with her cello (amplified) and improvising.
Videos (manipulated in real-time by audio signal analysis) were
projected from the trees down onto circular screens on the ground.
The audience was advised prior to the performance to feel free and
walk around and explore the entire environment.  They either stood or
sat instead watching the performance.  The audience is not yet ready
for such deviations.

Another thing that in fact interests me, although I have not yet
expolored it much is Satie's concept of musique d'ammeublement...

> >>  of the same artists.  it's simply not feasible for musicians to be in
> >>  as many places and perform for as many people as their recordings can

> >That is understandable, too.  However, this does not seem to be the
> >driving force behind record sales (and now, online music sales).
> 
> is it simply blind consumerism, fostered by greedy corporations?

This is, in general, how I see it.  It isn't true for small labels,
though.  At least I don't they work that way.  IN the realm of
experimental music and microlables (micro as in small) the driving
force is the actual desire to get the music to those who are
interested in it.  On the larger scale, however, it's a different
story.  The music is not always marketed because the producers believe
it's got great artistic value.  Believe me, I know.

> musicians who compose and record create their music with certain
> parameters in mind, such as acoustics and tone.  frequently concert
> venues (whether traditional halls/clubs or nontraditional outdoor
> spaces) are dependent on sound reinforcement and acoustic challenges
> that alter these parameters, often in unwelcome ways.  for example,
> autechre's clicks and pops are very carefully produced "dry" or with
> varying amounts of specific types of reverb and eq.  experiencing
> music such as this in any setting other than headphones (or in an
> ordinary small room) changes the characteristics of the music they
> fought so hard to control.

I understand.  I also understand that some artists may have specific
needs.  Does Autechre perform live?  If their music sounds best on a
CD with headphones or in a living room I hope they don't tour and
stand by the principle.

Also, if I have specific needs for sound reproduction I will control
in what venue and under what cirumstances I will perform.  It may not
always be possible, I know. 

> i understnad that music, once it leaves the artist's hands, is by
> necessity going to change somewhat, but it would seem that an artist
> would want it to remain as faithful to his/her vision as
> possible. otherwise every piece may as well be uploaded to an
> interactive music site in multitrack form, allowing anyone to remix
> the work as they please.  i know this has been done, but this is one
> option rather than the norm, nor do i personally see it as a desirable
> one.  at this point in time it smacks of novelty, although in theory
> it's quite interesting and liberating.

Tha also depends on a personal aesthetic.  It is true that in most
electronic music genres the final composition is set in stone (or
rather a CD or some other digital medium).  This seems to be a norm in
fact that encompasses way too many musical genres.  everything is in
the same basket.  

Is jazz suitable to be immortalized on a CD?  Yes and no.  We're
thankful for orginal recordings of jazz from the 30's 40's etc because
otherwise it would be difficult to learn about their forms, styles
etc.  But I would love to buy a CD by, say, Pat Mentheny and hear
different solos every time I put it on.

> if you assume everyone
> in an audience is after similar things in experiencing a performance,
> then everything might go well.  

Well, I certainly hope everyone in the audience is after the same
thing.  I don't think it is an artist's role to target various types
of tastes and bring audiences together.  I think that an artist will
have something to say and various people will connect with that
'message'.  Wishful thinking?  Maybe.

> there are a wide variety of ways of making music, and some simply
> don't lend themselves to live performance very well.  

Yes, as well as some don't lend themselves to a fixed medium.

> there are also instances where a performance specifically involves
> prerecorded music, such as a highly skilled DJ cutting between 2 or 3
> turntables (not simply beatmatching), or people triggering samples or
> tape loops to create a new piece that varies each time and interacts
> with the environment in a positive and even planned-for manner. again
> i concede these are exceptions, but without prerecorded music they
> wouldn't even be options.

true, and I reiterate that I have no problem with recorded music.  I
have a problem with the place it occupies in the musical 'culture'.

> see if you can track down a copy of the release i mentioned earlier,

Thanks, will look around.

> although the examples i'm thinking of are generally so
> market-driven we can barely call them "artists".

gotcha.

> so we're not completely on opposite sides, it seems  : )

Concerning sharing and letting others to know your music via
electronic files, we're in the same camp.

> ok, i see where you're coming from with this now.  i also have to say
> the opposite can be true; a CD or mp3 can reach someone a lot easier
> than a live show (which often costs as much or more than recorded
> music).  how will people know they want to go see a show if they
> haven't heard a recording first?  unless there happen to be multiple
> artists on the same bill and by chance you catch another's performance.

Yeah, but why would I want to go to a show if I know the music by
heart since I bought a CD?  And then, aren't shows ways of promoting
the CDs?  So that means you're supposed to go to the show, like the
music and buy the CD.  I disagree with this mentality, somewhat, but
that's another story.

> i think there are many challenges to getting people's attention with
> music and art, and i'm open to as many as possible, provided they
> don't do the music a disservice.  having my music on CD and mp3 clips
> available online has allowed people in countries i've never been to
> discover and enjoy my music.  should i ever make it to those far-off
> lands, i also hope to give them a live performance they'll remember
> fondly.

Best of luck.

../MiS


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