Re: [microsound] being 'political' in non-verbal music

[Exegene <exegene@xxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Kassen wrote:

> Exegene;
>
>> i submit that a language-candidate is indeed a language only if it can be
>> used to write a book on literary theory(1).
>> 1 - Where book means anything similar to a recorded, transmissible and
>> archivable message, literary theory is  divorced of western cultural
>> imperialism, etc.
>
> Well, that´s a clear definition, but I fail to see how it´s a good or
> usefull one or what the use is of excluding languages (well, canidates, to
> you) that have no written form (there are a lot of those) or that belong to
> culures that for some reason aren´t so inclined towards literary theory (I
> could see some solid reasons for that).

Okay. "Book" and "literary theory" may have been poor choices. How about 
instead "something like a book" and "something like literary theory, 
depending on what 'something like a book' evaulates to." Mayan calendars, 
the Finnbogi Saga, and so on  satisfy "something like a book." Any 
language-candidate with words for "speak" and similar probably pass the 
"something like literary theory..." condition.

> It will also immediately raise the question exactly what is literary theory
> in this context while we try to sort the savages from the users of language.
> "Jack´s song rhimes nicely" and "Error parsing "Exegene" in line 001;
> invalid expression" could both be seen as examples of expressions that have
> some aspects of literary theory", are they? Suppose we chanced uppon some
> group of people that made sounds towards one another; how would we go about
> comunicating with them, even if we had a interperter, if we wouldn´t yet be
> sure wether they had a language at all? If I´d belong to such a group I´d
> immediately claim that yes, you could write a book on language theory in my
> language but no, we are not going to do it, being presently engaged in some
> other activity. This would leave the poor anthropologist with the task of
> trying to write or record a book equivalent in my language.
*snip*

"Something like literary theory..." might be most simply expressed as 
talking about talking. Assuming this, is there really any culture that 
does not have "something like literary theory...?" This phrase of course 
does not allow the transmission of novel information and can only 
reference  what the receiver already knows on the matter of talking, and 
needs to be analysed to reveal 
is secret kernal. Similarly "something like a book" so far i can come up 
with no rigorous definition for, being able only to list things 
sufficiently "like a book" in the hopethat its own secret kernel may be 
meaningfully referenced. Clearly, if the proposal is to be good, useful, 
or advantageous, the two gaping placeholders will require serious 
investment of effort.

Just who does or does not understand whom does not come into the picture 
of determining who is in posession of language by the proposed criteria. 
If the strange people with the strange language-candidate are capable of, 
say, spreading rumors, recognising those rumors as rumors, and expressing that 
they are indeed so, they would certainly be in posession of language.

To indulge in buzzwords, it's the fractaline complexity of language that 
is one of its most defining feature, that gives it its expressivity, that 
can only occur with the potential for significant self-reference. Whether 
the possibility of self reference require some amount of something like 
self reference to be already in the memory of the user of the 
language-candidate in question is a difficult question. But, it seems that 
the ability to analyse analysis really is so important, because it is a 
languages equivalent of self-awareness. It's not enough that a person is 
able to transmit meaning, the language and its words/sagas/tax law reform
proposals/LPs/... have to be part of the conversation, possibly holding 
their own private conversation, too.

It is hoped that the proposal or one(many?) to shoulder its burden will 
facilitate the creation and use of language in nonverbal communication 
forms, ideally allowing, for example, for nonverbal music to be both 
political and as expressive and meaningful as the communist manifesto, or 
UN declaration of human rights, or what have you.


-- 
Dear Patron Saint,
your lips are lopsided
www.devo.com/exegene

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