Re: [microsound] was Greenpeace vs apple is now IBM and nazi germany

[Neil Wiernik <neil@xxxxxxxxxx>]

yeah I agree with you that it was not IBM that paved the way for this to 
happen, the killing machine was not ibm punchcards but rather a tool used 
for this horrific plan of hitler and his associates. I would never blame 
ibm for what happened ever, i just find it hard to belive that they had no 
idea what these punch card machines were being used for.
I also think it is important that we aknowlege that the company known as 
ibm in the 30s and 40s is a very different company then it is now. The 
people that ran the company then and the people that run it now are very 
different people.
no one is perfect is the thing to remember and as a child of a survivor I 
have tried hard to live my life like this. that some times people or 
corperations make horrible mistakes and its important to forgive for such 
mistakes as long as they are aknowleged and corrected.
this can be applied to ones personal life also, for example: I used to 
work for a company that is involved in the war in iraq, no idea 
what they do other then its technology driven, but as soon as I found this 
out I found my self a new job. I personally like you with ibm didnt want 
to be associated directly with such evil doings.

neil...

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Johan Nilsson wrote:

> Well, I wasn't initially going to reply because I realize it's getting way 
> off topic and as you say, it's hitting close to home for you and I don't mean 
> to upset you. I can't relate to how americans knew about the holocaust 
> because I was born in Sweden. In Sweden, surely enough, people knew the 
> nazi's were after the Jews. My grandfather, a seaman, helped Jewish children 
> get into hiding in Sweden. But everytime I talked to him about it, he always 
> said that even though he knew, he never thought it was as horrific as it 
> turned out to be. That's where I come from. But that being said, I still 
> stand by my statement that I think the whole IBM and the nazi Germany thing 
> is blown way out of porpotions. When people state that IBM laid the way for 
> the German war, I really want to know how one fights wars with punch card 
> machines, and what punch card machines has to do with the Nazi ideology. 
> Personally I think it's just a "hit" at one of the biggest corporations in 
> the world, but you can't really compare IBM of that day, to Big Blue today.
>
> But again, I did start by previous post with "Hm, I thought..." and I guess 
> that belongs in front of this post as well. I hope I do not insult you, I 
> just wanted to explain my opinion and again sorry to the rest for getting 
> off-topic.
>
> Johan.
>
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 6:50 AM, Neil Wiernik wrote:
>
> > http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/
> > http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jun2001/ibm-j27.shtml
> >
> > there is plenty more just do a google search...
> > its pretty nieve for any one to think that people didnt knoww hat hitler 
> > and the nazi party were up to its not like they really hide it from any 
> > one... even if they sort of how could they hide it at the scale they were 
> > doing it (Im a child of a survivor so this subject hits very close to home 
> > for me). I think people like to say that they didnt know what they were up 
> > to, I think its more like people didnt want to belive it was happening and 
> > were there for in denial of it all. they were in dianl untill they could 
> > not any more, when they were presented with first hand pictures and stories 
> > from people then the west has no choice but to accept it. but to say they 
> > didnt now what was going on is IMHO an easy cop out.
> > neil..

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