Re: [microsound] puff 'n stuff

[Michal Seta <mis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

ag@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:

> > what do you mean by lack of support?  Please...
> > 
> Comparitively as a plaform, of course.  Not a slight, just a simple fact.

Still didn't answer my question.  I really don't understand what 'lack
of support' mean.  A plethora of sound cards is supported as is
digital audio in all the forms that any other platform supports.  What
is the problem here?

> > houses.  That I think is mature enough.
> > 
> A "few sound engineers", "Pixar", and "probably other production houses".
> I don't think that would fly as a base for arguing maturity of a platform.

I said 'mature enough'.  I do say that many apps being developed are
behind some commercial products that have been around for many years.
It is an undeniable fact.  the platform as such however is mature.  

> Actually, I don't see the connection at all.  Having technology that works
> well, on a professional level, precedes acceptance by the industry that 
> uses that technology.  

Is the acceptance of the industry some kind of a measure?  Will people
start using linux audio apps when and because the entire industry will
say it's ok?  I think that if professional level production is
possible on a particular platform with a particular set of tools we're
in business. 
 
> So we are seeing the beginnings of this.  That's great.
> Are we done?  Not even close.  

Will we ever?

> Maturity denotes long term established use. 
> This has not yet occured.

how long?  

Reason is being widely used.  One could say that it's
established.  How long has it been around?  Is it mature?

Csound has been in use for many many years.  Established in some
circles, definitely not the 'industry'.  Is it mature?

> 
> > > As a base, Linux
> > > is easlily more stable and capable than a MS based kernel, so it is simply a 
> > > matter of time before that capacity is tapped.
> > 
> > That capacity has been tapped a while ago.  Where have you been?
> >
> We are talking about sound here right?  It is clear that sound on *nix platforms
> is a fast developing, albeit young movement.  And again, take this comparitavely,
> linux does not live in a world by itself.  Clearly, there is a huge amount of
> ground that can be covered on this platform.  Has this been tapped?  Knowing the 
> power of open source, community development, and the extensibility of the platform
> I would say the surface has merely been scratched.

I think that what is more important is that a cartain group of people have
realized the potential.  Of course there is a huge amount of work that
needs to be done, especially to provide an alternative to commercial
software.  And not only in sound.

One more thing to note is that the open source community depends on
user-base, user feedback and mutual help.  It seems that some people
feel very uncomfortable with it.  Most people are used to
self-installing software that 'just works'(tm).  Clearly, this is not
the case with linux.  However, most developers are eager to hear from
users.  Feature requests, bug reports, various support material (audio
demos, configuration patches, etc) are always welcome.  Many new users
find linux overwhelming and that's understandable but instead of
complaining directly to the developers, they drop out and relate only
unpleasant experiences.  Linux, with all its aspects: sound,
multimedia, server, office, etc. will continue to grow only if the
community is there to use and support it.  Otherwise we will not get
through the surface.

> 
> I think it is easy to lose sight of objectivity when one presents sides in zealous
> light.  

Am i zealous? Maybe.  however, it seems that linux comes back once in
a while to the panel. Some people had not so good experiences, others are
curious.  I think that shedding some positive light and
clarifying comments which could otherwise be misleading is hardly a lack of objectivity.

> I use it because it works, prefer it because I believe in it's social implications, but will
> not defer to use tools on other platforms when needed.  

Well, I have also that 'open source' perversion, but that's rather
unrelated to sound.

> Linux will certainly get there, 
> and by the looks of things, very soon, but don't fool yourself into thinking that 
> we have arrived.

I never said we did.  And my daily frustrations with various aspects
of noise making in linux remind me of that.  What I am saying is
linux, as a platform _and_ various audio apps, have reached a point
where they can be used for 'serious' work.  That said, I realize that
many will not yet feel fully comfortable with it.  


-- 
	      _
      __  __ (_)___   Michal Seta
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    /  	     V |_  \ @creazone.32k.org
   (___/V\___|_|___/
http://www.[creazone]|[noonereceiving].32k.org


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