my point is that you argue things in excess, you fight other peoples
battels for them and more over just like to hear your voice speak and
for what NO REASON that I can see!!! jesus!!!!!!
regarding your short sighted comment about ibm is that your sitting
here and dissing apple when 99.9999999999999999 percent of all things
produced for consumer wants/needs are opressing someone some where so
like I said put a sock in it, no one really wants to hear your whining
its a known fact that we all know adn live with... if you want to be
perfect go live in a cave in the mountains and eat dirt and run around
naked but even tehn youll opress come thing like the tiny bugs and
bacteria youll kill when eating the dirt and the grass youll sept on
running around naked
not to mention the sexual abuse youll enforce on the poor animals as
they are forced to watch you running naked through the mountains ...
thats just terrable I think we should censor every thing as evil as
its the only way we can live clean no opressive lives!!!
(if you take this reply as serious dont even bother)
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:
In regards to flame wars, your the only one that seems to respond
with anger and spite when someone offers a differing opinion. Reread
the thread, your the only one that insults anyone.
IBM developed technology for the Nazis, as did many corporations that
are still around today. I still do not see how Greenpeace has
anything to do with IBM and the Holocaust. How do you know what
types of computers Greenpeace uses? Gimme some point of reference.
And if they do use technology that was developed decades after WWII
what does it matter? Does that undo the good that they do? Do you
suggest that they cease to exist because of IBM checkered past via
WWII, developing technology that is not even in use today for the
most part? Should use apple/mac who uses impoverished asian work
forces to assemble their uber/expensive sheik design friendly
computers?
aLEKs
On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:43 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:
no Im saying that greenpeace if not using a mac most likely in some
form or manner uses IBM products which IMHO as a company are far
more worse then apple ever will be in that IBM supported and built
technology for the nazi's in world war 2. sp the technology that
navigates thier ships or Im sure the laptops they use are ibms if
not apples machines also... so before they stick thier foot deeper
into their moths they should stop and think is what Im sayign get it
now????
you keep telling me offenxe and that your not being condescending
but you and the other person what ever his name is are and mor eover
you say how much you hate flame wars but both times I have posted
recently it has been you that manages to create a flame war, by your
stuborn arguments... your entitled to your opinion just like I am
leave it at that !!
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:
I do not see how his response was condescending. It was a response
to your claim that Greenpeace is hypocritical with their ideology.
Which i also agree is a rather weak argument on your part, no
offense intended. Green peace cannot be compared to IBM. IBM's
sole motivator is profits. Where Green Peace ideology is global
conservation. All of their resources go toward raising awareness
in regards to mans inability to live in balance with his
environment. Sure they need modern technology in order to operate
with any sort of effective impact. They do so with a lot of
foresight. Are they perfect? No, nothing is perfect really in
this world, but to claim that they are no different then mega
corporations, or entities driven solely by profits is misguided.
It is true that everyone is entitled to an opinion. What
predicates a solid opinion is that it is well thought out as well
as being based with a solid point of reference, i.e. facts.
Again no offense intended.
aLEKs
On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:
his responce was extreemly condisending...
towards me and towards any one else that might think diffeently
then he does...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:
You are a crass individual. His rationale is logical and i do
not see how it can be misconstrued as overbearing, just the
opposite actually. You need to relax and stop being so defensive.
If everyone was to act as you do this list would be one giant
flame war. What are you even being defensive about? I am
honestly having a hard time deciphering your response? His first
response was a very logical and well thought out observation.
Have some respect...
aLEKs
On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:01 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:
oh shut up and put a sock in it no one here wants to hear your
upper class white bread mombo jumbo!!! pretentious twit!
its so simple to speak from the ivory tower hidding behind your
white academic elephant... try getting into the thick of it knee
deep in tear gas, police sticks and rubber bullets then come
talk to me!
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, xe non wrote:
it drastically oversimplifies the situation which makes it at
best misguided.
Neil Wiernik <neil@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
its not a wierd rant at all...
its basic look in your own trash can before complaining about
others
trash...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, xe non wrote:
what a strange rant...
yes, every environmentalist struggles with the contradictions
of being "in the world" when it comes to effective activism
and they make thier peace with the compromises they know they
will have to make somewhere around thier sophmore year at
college. yes, they will probably have to use cars, yes they
will have to live in buildings made with wood, yes they will
use electricity and do thier work with wasteful and toxic
technology...if they choose to stay engaged with society in
order to help change it yes. this is a realists approach. will
they minimize all this...most likely, as best thay can.
i suppose greenpeace could eschew all the tools of the modern
world and try to communicate the information they have and
coordinate thier campaigns from a computerless shack in the
woods in order to meet your peerless standards for acceptable
activism, but we all know how well that turned out for the
unabomber and all concerned.
this campaign is an unusually refreshing for the effective way
it calls attention to the problem of toxic waste from
computers in general. targeting the company with the most
eco-friendly public image that it doesnt live up to, seems an
effective way to accomplish that goal. at least it is done
with good-humour and stays focused on the problem, or do you
prefer the kaczynski method?
xe
Neil Wiernik wrote:
the larger question is does green peace use computers at all
as if they do
they to are part of the problem and not the solution if they
want to spin
things that way any how...
why dont they look at how computers as a whole work for them...
rather then against..
Im sure they use a fine number of IBM products and we all know
who IBM
helped in world war 2... i think rather then talkign like they
are holier
then now they need to look in thier own back yards.. I mean
what powers
thier boats GAS who makes the GAS...
I am a political person but when grassroot organisations dont
take the
time to look in their own back yard before pointing fingers it
pisses me
off!!!
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Steffan De Turck wrote:
unfortunately Greenpeace is more about demonizing
specific companies then making a POINT
e.g. Shell instead of Exxon Mobile, BP, Q8, Texaco,
Esso etc. etc. etc.
and now Apple?...
It seems a bit too trendy a campaign for me -- why
not talk about
all PC manufacturers, the full scope of the
problem, and work for
enacting national legislation following the
progressive European
lead in this area? Targeting a single company
seems gratuitous...
Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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