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Re: [microsound] Greenpeace and apple




my point is that you argue things in excess, you fight other peoples battels for them and more over just like to hear your voice speak and for what NO REASON that I can see!!! jesus!!!!!!


regarding your short sighted comment about ibm is that your sitting here and dissing apple when 99.9999999999999999 percent of all things produced for consumer wants/needs are opressing someone some where so like I said put a sock in it, no one really wants to hear your whining its a known fact that we all know adn live with... if you want to be perfect go live in a cave in the mountains and eat dirt and run around naked but even tehn youll opress come thing like the tiny bugs and bacteria youll kill when eating the dirt and the grass youll sept on running around naked
not to mention the sexual abuse youll enforce on the poor animals as they are forced to watch you running naked through the mountains ... thats just terrable I think we should censor every thing as evil as its the only way we can live clean no opressive lives!!!
(if you take this reply as serious dont even bother)




On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:

In regards to flame wars, your the only one that seems to respond with anger and spite when someone offers a differing opinion. Reread the thread, your the only one that insults anyone.

IBM developed technology for the Nazis, as did many corporations that are still around today. I still do not see how Greenpeace has anything to do with IBM and the Holocaust. How do you know what types of computers Greenpeace uses? Gimme some point of reference. And if they do use technology that was developed decades after WWII what does it matter? Does that undo the good that they do? Do you suggest that they cease to exist because of IBM checkered past via WWII, developing technology that is not even in use today for the most part? Should use apple/mac who uses impoverished asian work forces to assemble their uber/expensive sheik design friendly computers?

aLEKs





On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:43 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:


no Im saying that greenpeace if not using a mac most likely in some form or manner uses IBM products which IMHO as a company are far more worse then apple ever will be in that IBM supported and built technology for the nazi's in world war 2. sp the technology that navigates thier ships or Im sure the laptops they use are ibms if not apples machines also... so before they stick thier foot deeper into their moths they should stop and think is what Im sayign get it now????


you keep telling me offenxe and that your not being condescending but you and the other person what ever his name is are and mor eover you say how much you hate flame wars but both times I have posted recently it has been you that manages to create a flame war, by your stuborn arguments... your entitled to your opinion just like I am leave it at that !!


On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:

I do not see how his response was condescending. It was a response to your claim that Greenpeace is hypocritical with their ideology. Which i also agree is a rather weak argument on your part, no offense intended. Green peace cannot be compared to IBM. IBM's sole motivator is profits. Where Green Peace ideology is global conservation. All of their resources go toward raising awareness in regards to mans inability to live in balance with his environment. Sure they need modern technology in order to operate with any sort of effective impact. They do so with a lot of foresight. Are they perfect? No, nothing is perfect really in this world, but to claim that they are no different then mega corporations, or entities driven solely by profits is misguided.

It is true that everyone is entitled to an opinion. What predicates a solid opinion is that it is well thought out as well as being based with a solid point of reference, i.e. facts.

Again no offense intended.

aLEKs


On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:

his responce was extreemly condisending...
towards me and towards any one else that might think diffeently then he does...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, aleks vasic wrote:
You are a crass individual. His rationale is logical and i do not see how it can be misconstrued as overbearing, just the opposite actually. You need to relax and stop being so defensive. If everyone was to act as you do this list would be one giant flame war. What are you even being defensive about? I am honestly having a hard time deciphering your response? His first response was a very logical and well thought out observation.
Have some respect...
aLEKs
On Dec 27, 2006, at 3:01 PM, Neil Wiernik wrote:
oh shut up and put a sock in it no one here wants to hear your upper class white bread mombo jumbo!!! pretentious twit!
its so simple to speak from the ivory tower hidding behind your white academic elephant... try getting into the thick of it knee deep in tear gas, police sticks and rubber bullets then come talk to me!
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, xe non wrote:
it drastically oversimplifies the situation which makes it at best misguided.
Neil Wiernik <neil@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
its not a wierd rant at all...
its basic look in your own trash can before complaining about others
trash...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, xe non wrote:
what a strange rant...
yes, every environmentalist struggles with the contradictions of being "in the world" when it comes to effective activism and they make thier peace with the compromises they know they will have to make somewhere around thier sophmore year at college. yes, they will probably have to use cars, yes they will have to live in buildings made with wood, yes they will use electricity and do thier work with wasteful and toxic technology...if they choose to stay engaged with society in order to help change it yes. this is a realists approach. will they minimize all this...most likely, as best thay can.
i suppose greenpeace could eschew all the tools of the modern world and try to communicate the information they have and coordinate thier campaigns from a computerless shack in the woods in order to meet your peerless standards for acceptable activism, but we all know how well that turned out for the unabomber and all concerned.
this campaign is an unusually refreshing for the effective way it calls attention to the problem of toxic waste from computers in general. targeting the company with the most eco-friendly public image that it doesnt live up to, seems an effective way to accomplish that goal. at least it is done with good-humour and stays focused on the problem, or do you prefer the kaczynski method?
xe
Neil Wiernik wrote:
the larger question is does green peace use computers at all as if they do
they to are part of the problem and not the solution if they want to spin
things that way any how...
why dont they look at how computers as a whole work for them...
rather then against..
Im sure they use a fine number of IBM products and we all know who IBM
helped in world war 2... i think rather then talkign like they are holier
then now they need to look in thier own back yards.. I mean what powers
thier boats GAS who makes the GAS...
I am a political person but when grassroot organisations dont take the
time to look in their own back yard before pointing fingers it pisses me
off!!!
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Steffan De Turck wrote:
unfortunately Greenpeace is more about demonizing
specific companies then making a POINT
e.g. Shell instead of Exxon Mobile, BP, Q8, Texaco,
Esso etc. etc. etc.
and now Apple?...
It seems a bit too trendy a campaign for me -- why
not talk about
all PC manufacturers, the full scope of the
problem, and work for
enacting national legislation following the
progressive European
lead in this area? Targeting a single company
seems gratuitous...
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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